Another feared it would leave the board, and possibly individual teachers and principals, open to an expensive lawsuit.
The superintendent decided not to make a recommendation on the controversial matter.
In the end, the BOE took no action on the matter at Tuesday night’s board meeting.
The Barrow BOE has been considering a proposal which would allow both Winder-Barrow High School and Apalachee High School to offer an elective class teaching the Bible as a history and literature course.
Superintendent Ron Saunders and district curriculum director Claire Miller studied the issue for approximately a year and discussed the possibility with several administrators, teachers, parents and board members.
A change in the state law in 2006 allows public schools in Georgia to offer courses with the Bible as the primary text.
Veteran BOE school board member Lynn Stevens, who served on the committee that looked into the idea, spoke against the course being offered.
“When I read the law, I wondered what atheists we were going to get to teach them,” Stevens said. “The law does not give teachers protection to teach this class. This law was passed to make politicians look good and to have a way to put the Bible back in school.”
Stevens reminded those in attendance Tuesday night that the county had previously been through an expensive lawsuit from the American Civil Liberties Union over the placing of the Ten Commandments in the county courthouse.
“This is going to have a major economical impact on the school system if we are sued,” Stevens said. “The ACLU is looking closely at this and looking closely at Barrow County. Our attorney has expressed reservations about this. As a Christian, I think it is up to the parents, pastors and community to teach our kids what to believe. I will vote ‘no’ on this.”
Board member Connie Wehunt said her husband was a member of the Barrow County Board of Commissioners when it was sued over the Ten Commandments.
“I want the Bible back in the school system, but I am scared to death of doing this,” Wehunt said. “Do we want to risk $3 million?”
“That amount can buy a lot of textbooks,” Stevens responded.
District 1 board member Randall Holland said he didn’t know why the board was concerned about a lawsuit.
“The state has approved this course,” Holland said. “We have learned 47 percent of the students want to take this course and we have teachers willing to teach it. It is an optional course. In the 50s and 60s, we had a Bible in the classroom.”
School board chairman Bill Bramlett said the course needs to be presented to the board as a regular course.
“It doesn’t need to receive special treatment,” Bramlett said. “If you draw attention to it, the it could attract a lawsuit.”
Stevens said once again the course was political and was about putting the Bible back in the classroom.
Bramlett and Saunders disagreed and said it was not political in nature.
Stevens said “common sense and reality” told everyone that it was.
Wehunt asked several times if the board could guarantee that no individual teacher or principal would be named in a lawsuit. That guarantee was never made.
“We need to stand behind our principals and teachers and not break them,” Wehunt said.
The class was never put to a vote Tuesday night.
Wehunt wanted to hear from those in attendance, but Bramlett would not allow it saying Tuesday’s meeting was not the time for that.
“We would be here for two or three hours,” he said.
Students, teachers, administrators were given the opportunity to provide input. They indicated they would like to see it offered. What's the big problem? Should our students not be allowed to decide for themselves on this issue? Is the Bible not literature and or historical documentation that can be reviewed and evaluated by anyone to arrive at their own conclusions as to how it relates to history? We teach Darwinism, Big Bang Theory, etc., etc. I don't see anyone complaining about that, or worrying about a lawsuit being filed. Why is that? I would be interested in the answer.
For Ms. Stevens to state that politics is the only reason for the introduction of the Bible as a possible course of study by high school students, is an insult to the entire process.
Many thanks to Dr. Saunders for standing up for common sense on this issue.
Respectfully submitted,
DuWayne R. Anderson
Winder, GA
As for Mr. Holland -- just because we did something in the 50s or 60s does not justify doing it today. Please present a better argument for changes in the future. Let's keep up with the realities of the day (ACLU lawsuits) AND understand there are higher priority items to tackle in the school system.
Does anyone on the board have any ideas on putting more computers in the classrooms or improving the overall performance of the school system? Now that would be interesting.
As for Mr. Bramlett not wanting to let people speak because of the amount of time needed...... Please look at the recent county commission elections....the current leader was not big on public comment either so we elected a new chairman and district commissioners that start in January. The recent BOE elections got a pass...I bet that will not be the case in 2 years.
legal staff who know the law better than you or I do. I am sure they did their homework. Also,
to Janet, I applaud your post and the Christian reference to Daniel. Well done! Nice to see another strong Christian stand up for what they believe in, and not cave in to the fear of lawsuits by the ACLU.
DuWayne R. Anderson
Winder, GA
Our children and their parents should have a choice to take this class when the time comes. Hence, no lawsuits if permission slips are signed by parent or guardians. What's the problem?
Thank you.
It is BECAUSE the Christians of the last generation did nothing when the Bible was taken out of schools in 1962, that we have come to this. The Bible was taken out of the home long before it was taken out of the classroom, or that never would have happened.
I don't want a heathen teaching my kids the Bible. That's my job, and as a parent, I willingly accept it.
To say that the Bible will only be used as a textbook for literature purposes is absurd. The Bible can, and does, change lives. That is what the ACLU and other liberals are afraid of, and why they are so quick with their lawsuits.
When are we going to stop dumping our children on the school door steps and expect a whole well rounded child to come out the other end. Come on Parents let's step up to the job you signed up for. Go to church on Sunday, Read to your children, turn off the TV, and stop asking the school system to do it all.
Interesting how this is such an issue now, but in 1962, no one cared that the Supreme Court took the Bible out of the schools. That generation allowed it to happen.
The last thing I would want is a heathen teaching my kids the Bible--so we teach it ourselves.
That is the bottom line: Anyone that is so worried about it should already be teaching their kids the Bible at home.
Mr. Holland, I am a student of the '50s. Bibles weren't the norm in school! Parents, Sunday school teachers, peers and ministers taught us the bible, values, morals, and the meaning of integrity. Public school teachers taught us reading, writing, and arithmetic. Christianity wasn't a politically incorrect word and scoring below a 70 on a test didn't affect one's self-esteem, it affected ones rear-end, ones grade as a failing grade and one wasn't promoted to the next grade, they simply repeated the grade. Teacher or parent didn't spare the rod. Teachers weren't saddled with the responsibility of being an absentee parent, just a teacher who assisted in molding the mind for success.
Lynn Stevens recognizes that it is the responsibility of parents to teach religion as religion is practiced in individual households, "As a Christian, I think it is up to the parents, pastors and community to teach our kids what to believe." I only disagree in that it doesn't take a community (village) to assume the responsibilities of a parent.
How many people will accept the decision when the Koran, Judaism, Atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, snake handling, communism and other student religions/non-religions must be recognized as an elective course that must be taught in Barrow County? You can bet that a student enrolled in Barrow County practices one of these religions/non-religions. Many of these religions predate Christianity by centuries. Why stop with just Christianity being taught?
Which version of the bible will be taught? Will the King James Version or the Catholic Version of the bible be used for the course? Before anyone jumps all over this question negatively, perhaps a reading of the history behind the Protest submitted by the Christian princes at the Diet (Council) of Spires in Germany in 1529 would be in order. The question is valid. The religious beliefs of Christians in 2008 are just as strong as those beliefs were in 1529.
This Board of Education should follow Lynn Stevens lead and reject teaching the Bible as an elective. We, as a family, do not want our tax dollars paying for litigation or paying teachers salaries to become religious lay-ministers.
A comment was made that children should decide if Bible classes are allowed. Reply: Children don't pay school taxes or necessarily understand the monetary damages that could be paid by teachers not protected by law.
Any elective course allows the parents and students to have the choice IF they choose to do so. They are not under any required mandate to take the course, it would simply be available if and when the student decided with written parental consent to take the course. The Bible stands on its own merit, as God's Word, and has for thousands of years.
Another point I would like to make, is that we as tax paying citizens had the opportunity to vote for the educators who manage the Georgia educational system. One of their duties is to address and research available curriculum that could be considered to be part of any classroom
setting. In addition, educators, taxpaying citizens,school board members,and others, were consulted, so that all points of view could be heard. This process has been in the works for a least a year now. It has been studied at length by Dr. Saunders, and Ms. Miller. I trust their judgment in making difficult decisions. That's what they get paid to do. Maybe you don't.
One other disturbing reoccurring theme that consistently is stated here, is that we need to make our decisions, based on whether or not we will be sued by the infamous ACLU and will have to expend taxpayer funds to defend a position that has been agreed on. So, if the ACLU promises in writing, not to sue the state, county, or teacher, for offering this elective course, would it then be OK to offer to students? I wonder..........
While hiding behind the term "fiscal responsibility" is a convenient way to justify an opinion,in reality,it only masks our fear of litigation from the ACLU,and sets a dangerous precedent as to how we decide issues and opportunities. If we allow the fear of ACLU legal action to dictate every decision we consider in running our school systems, why not just abolish the school board, and let the ACLU administer the programs that our kids will be taught. The ACLU is out of control. That doesn't mean we have to be. As a taxpayer, I would be willing to fight the ACLU if I felt the cause was just and they were infringing on our rights. Freedom and options,are the cornerstones on which this country was founded. The ACLU does not have the final say on what is done in a school system......... The Supreme Court of the United States does. Please remember that. Offer the elective course!!
DuWayne R. Anderson
Winder
Sincerely,
DuWayne R. Anderson
Winder, GA
Had you added "Bible" to your statement, "I would like to remind you, that all of the other religious doctrines that you listed, are also readily available to any high school student on the internet or in some book stores and or libraries.(Yes, even snake handling)", this conversation wouldn't be taking place. You have summarily dismissed all religions, less Christianity, as deserving of any, or at least equal, weight being considered, in determining what a government entity should teach such a diverse body of students!
Thank you for clarifying the meaning of "elective" to this readership and for reminding all readers of the obvious, that information about all other religious doctrine is available on the Internet.
Lynn Stevens served on the same committee during the study of this matter and she, as an elected official, recommended not allowing this elective. I trust her judgement on this matter and it would appear many participants on this page agree as well.
Dr. Saunders did not make a recommendation to teach this elective, only to state that this course wasn't political, when in fact, it is political. The ultimate decision isn't Dr. Saunders to make and he wisely chose not to endorse such a controversial matter. That decision remains in the hands of the Board of Education.
Mike Formato summed this issue best, "I want the responsibility to teach my children about our faith, not to pass it on to a government employee." Now let us hope the BOE rejects this elective and chooses to devote their time to improving the AYP.
I am a God-fearing man who loves Jesus. I want the responsibility to teach my children about our faith, not to pass it on to a government employee.
Unfortunately, faith in school has become a political football because the silent majority remained...well....silent. Silence is golden to the enemy, the devil. The more we are silent, the more victories he and his soldiers (ACLU) will attain. Fight back, but fight for the right thing.
You then sir can pay for the defense of the lawsuit. Do not take money out of my pocket. I have enough to pay for as it is. I want no part of this.
It was no more optional than any other class. Each elective was only available for a particular year, and you had to take it. Of course, I doubt Barrow's schools are as bad as Hall county's were in the '90s.
The only sort of religious teaching in school I could get behind is the sort that prepares kids to enter a world where the vast majority of people follow some religion. A primer on Islam, Judaism, and Christianity would be beneficial to anyone.
Electives are optional courses.
Probably in middle school your mom chose your courses (which is why they were not optional!), although I personally don't remember any electives at all until high school.
And why would you define electives? It sounds like you're trying to be insulting. :\
It's also interesting that a post by an "Anonymous" always immediately follows my comments being approved. Are you the person responsible for moderating comments?
As you can see, this issue of an elective Bible course in Barrow County High Schools, has brought out a myriad of opinion and secular worldly mainstream rhetoric designed to fit with todays "Walk softly, and don't make the ACLU mad" mentality. Various writers have used the Ten Commandments litigation by the ACLU as an excellent reason why we should not offer this course. If we don't make any waves, maybe the ACLU will just forget about us and assail someone else in court.
I agree that the family represents the first line of instruction in matters of religious faith issues, and applaud those concerned parents who have responded. Parents have the right and authority(so far) to raise their children as they see fit in these matters.
My concern is, as I suspect with other Christians, the extent to which the ACLU is attempting to control, filter, and dissect the very daily decisions we consider, by hanging the threat of expensive litigation over our collective heads, if they don't like something we are trying to do.
I wonder how passionate we all would be, if the ACLU decides they want to be able to tell a parent that they can't teach their children ANY RELIGION without first running it by them? Far fetched you say, rubbish you say? Not in a million years would we allow that. What would you do then, to defend your rights as a parent?
I suspect that parental tax wallets would gladly open to defend such an attack on basic parental rights.(I know I would.)It is no different than telling a school board whether they can offer an elective Bible course to high School students under the threat of litigation.
Consider this: The ACLU and or OTHERS, are trying to eliminate "In God We Trust" from our currency, and REMOVE GOD from "One Nation under God from our own Pledge of Allegiance. Still think it is that far-fetched? The ACLU continues to intrude and infringe on our daily lives at an alarming rate, and allowed to go unchecked, will one day represent a threat to the very fabric of our Constitutional ideals.
I call for the Barrow County Board of Education to put this proposed elective Bible course on the normal agenda, and Vote on it. After a year of study, it would only seem fair to let the majority vote of the board decide the issue. That is the only fair way to ALL parties to resolve this issue. I for one, would be interested in the votes of other Board members, besides Ms. Stevens, whose opinion on this issue is well known. There is no valid reason outside of partisan politics, not to have a full Board vote! The citizens of Barrow County deserve at least that much, since we pay their salaries.
Respectfully submitted,
DuWayne R. Anderson
Winder, GA
If anyone doubts that parental rights are already under attack, do some research on the "UN Convention on the Rights of a Child". It is scary. Even the name is scary. And if the Dems get in power, it will only get worse.
In 1962 it was ruled that the bible should be taken out of our schools.
What has happened since that date?
The drug culture emerged!
Teen Pregnancy soared!
Weapons in schools!
Kids killing each other!
Kids attacking teachers!
Education going to the dogs!
40 Million Abortions!
Did any of these things happen before that date?
Only to a small degree!
The fact is that since the bible was taken out of our schools we have become a nation of thugs and gangs!
I live in a small town but can see drugs, murders, rapes, and other social ills rising every day!
You ask will bringing back the bible to our class rooms help?
It definitely cannot do any worse than we have done without it in our class rooms!
Do you want the heathen, the atheist, the wiccan, the muslim, teaching your kids the Bible? How about if that teacher wants to use the newest "version" that refers to God as He/She and Father/Mother? That heretical version has already been published, by the way.
Read the latest edition of the Braselton News on the topic of Bible classes in school, on the opinions page.
Like sex ed., the Bible should be taught at home. And only those that already do teach it at home are entitled to have an opinion on this subject (yes, we do).
Looked at this and all the angles i am sure thay know the
reporcutions that could happen! Right now if a student
wanted to spread the gosple he can so long as no parent
or teacher or outside entitie is envolved. You can see
what has happen sence we took the Bible out all morals
and responcibilities and conserne for life gone! We owe it
to all the studence that they get the whole story! The
Bible has been around longer than any history book out
there. I know most all the commisioners it is time to
start going from the heart not the pocketbook. I say
put morals back in schools and stand up for what is right!!
I really don't understand the Bible talks about love thy
neabor as thy self do for the needy support the old and bring up
your young to know right from wrong! this is the Bible why put it
down and take it out? What is wrong with this picture?
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Many thanks to Dr. Saunders for standing up for common sense on this issue.
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In your 2nd blog you think it should be allowed and agree with those that want it.
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The Bible simply joins the rest of the curriculum already in place as an elective course to be offered and considered.
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In your 3rd blog you start ranting about the ACLU.
Jeez - make up your mind! Seems you are for the course being offered but at the same time you're applaud Dr. Saunders for doing nothing.....
Thank you Ms. Stevens, I agree as one Christian to another, this should start in the home and then to our local places of worship. What would be next the Qur'an???