Online comments at barrowjournal.com about last week’s editorial concerning Obama’s misleading tax rhetoric got a little off track and into whether or not government employees are paid too much or too little.
Here’s the answer: With the exception of law enforcement and some other non-administrative public safety jobs, many local, state and national government employees make far more money than they would if they did the same job in the private sector.
For an example of that, just look at what the recently departed Winder city clerk was making: Total compensation with salary, insurance, retirement and other benefits topped $110,000 per year.
That was here, in Winder. A mid-level government employee was making a huge amount of money for a position that in the private sector would not pay half that much.
Of course, government employees don’t think they’re being paid too much. But many have no real frame of reference to judge that since they never worked in the private sector.
All of this began 40 years ago when many government employees were paid less than the private sector. To compensate for that, government agencies began to increase employee benefits: Better health insurance; better retirement plan; more holidays and paid vacation time.
But then government salaries, for the most part, caught up and then surpassed the private sector pay, especially in the white-collar administrative jobs.
Now, many government employees have far better salaries and benefits than similar private sector employees.
Winder’s situation wasn’t unique. If you take a look at many other towns’ city hall salaries, you’ll find the same kind of thing; excessive pay for mid-level job positions that are overpaid compared to private sector salaries.
Just about the only job positions in local government that aren’t being overpaid are in public safety and law enforcement, which are underpaid for the demands of those jobs. How can one justify compensating a clerk over $100,000 when the men and women who put their lives on the line make a third of that?
Of course, many government employees don’t understand this. I’ve heard many, many government employees say, “I could make more money in the private sector, but I like doing public service.”
That’s a myth. Most public sector employees couldn’t make nearly as much in the private sector as they do in government. Public sector employees have a distorted view of how the private sector works. Many government employees don’t know how good they have it with their public sector pay and benefits.
That’s why their complaining about pay is so irritating. “We need a raise, we haven’t had one in three years,” is the common refrain.
Well, neither has the private sector. But public employees feel entitled to a raise.
There’s a lot of debate today about the U.S. being divided into social classes, the one percent vs. the 99 percent, etc.
But the reality is, the nation is being divided into those who work for government who have gold-plated pay and benefits, and those who struggle in the private sector and pay the taxes to fund those plush public sector jobs.
That really irritates voters. A taxpayer goes into a public office to do some kind of business, but what they too often encounter are bad attitudes and lax service.
While one waits to get a permit or a tag, he gets to listen to government staff gossip about their private lives. The idea of “customer service” in many government offices doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t have to; government employees have the highest job security in the country. You just don’t see the kind of turnover in the public sector that you do in the private sector. That’s because there is no incentive for government employees to be competent or efficient in their jobs; nobody is going to fire them.
There are exceptions to this, of course. There are some well-run government offices where the staff is quick and courteous. You find those where you have strong leadership by elected officials.
What’s really hard to understand is how elected officials don’t police this problem better. Many of those on city council and county commissions come from the private sector. They should know that a city clerk being compensated over $110,000 in Winder is nuts.
And yet, the group dynamics of many commissioners and councils is to never raise those issues or ask any questions.
The situation with the former Winder city clerk is a textbook example of everything that is wrong with government. Too many paper-pushing public employees are making too much money for too little work.
The new administration in Winder is to be applauded for seeing that and taking action to fix it.
If only the state and federal governments would do likewise.
Mike Buffington is co-publisher of the Barrow Journal. He can be reached at mike@mainstreetnews.com.
After all we are just dumb taxpayers here to be raped and robbed so the few elect can maintain a lavish lifestyle.
Govt as private sector maybe becaause you fear youll get tickets and they wont come save you when you get in car wreck but guess what even in PUBLIC safety Govt workers make more then working private sector same jobs.....
and the reason elected folks do not put stop to more pay more time off is they know the workers will vote or work extra hard to vote em out!!!
bunch of pigs refuse to leave the trough even though they had their fill
What's your point?
Not too hard to connect the dots. Start with Buddy Ouzt and follow the trail. Incentives for Council members coincided with several raises at City Hall. Ouzt operated in the same manner Thompson attempted but fresh blood on the City Council prevented that from happening. MTF on changes that'll take place downtown but it's all good news for taxpayers.
We are constantly beating our heads up against the governmental brick wall and the incompentent government employee that make doing private business so frustrating.
I wouldn't mind paying someone a higher salary if they were compentent in their job.
In private business, most of these workers would have been fired a long time ago.
As Neal Boortz always says, these people could not survive in the private sector...that's why they are working for the government.
Certainly, there are the exceptions. Some very good buracratic workers exist. They are hard to find, but they do exist.
An excellent article Mike. I love it when the press calls out the obvious.
Ronald Reagan said it best "Government's first duty is to Protect the people Not run their lives..."
Given all the GOB wining about the Sheriff cracking down on the petty criminals, I'd say we have the Protect part down... Now the County needs to Get the GOB not GOP party out of our business, our homes, our lives...
You don't realize it, but you blame others for your personal unhappiness. This is the protest of the weak.
If you are so angry, if your point is so valid, and if want to call out someone in public office for their salary, why pick on some lil' ol' clerk ... or mostly female teachers? Why can't you bring yourself to call out a man; the area's men among men? What do you fear about calling out prominent ment, using their whole names if you intend to publically tar and feather them? Come on and buck up - if you feel so strongly, call out Jud Smith or Stan Evans for their salaries. Call out Brad Smith or Robert Adamson. You won't. You are weak.
What is upsetting to public safety personnel is when paper pushing bureaucrats employed by the same government receive such lavish compensation for performing clerical tasks, have better benefits and retirement plans, etc., than the personnel who actually serve the public. It is especially disheartening when the paper pushing bureaucrats formulate policies and procedures to be followed by public safety professionals when said bureaucrats have absolutely no knowledge of the professions they're trying to regulate.
With the separation of former Winder H.R Director, Penny Wilkins, the Mayor and Council have created an opportunity to improve the moral and work conditions of their public safety personnel. If they will simply engage in constructive conversations with their public safety department heads and personnel when a policy or procedure needs to be formulated or revised, many needed improvements, changes, and unnecessary stresses could be addressed or relieved. The former H.R Director wielded her policies in such a manner as to interfere with the operations of departments she knew nothing about. She apparently enjoyed building her bureaucratic power base and influence as much as her inflated salary and benefits. Usually to the detriment of the public safety personnel. A little more money would be nice,
but knowing their department heads can manage and direct their departments without unqualified bureaucratic interference is a breath of fresh air for the men and women who serve you.
DuWayne
Private Sector - Board of Directors/CEO/CFO/COO/Pres. determine salary structure through various different formulas that are tied to corporate profit margins for each division or entity. Thus, your salary or any secretary, was determined by some structure related to corporate issues. This explains why every Editor in the newspaper business doesn't make exactly the same salary......
Public/Government sector - pay is provided by tax revenue.
Private Sector - Pay is provided by revenue from product sales and or services.
DuWayne
The next government does the same thing a few months later but the RDC has factored in inflation and time since last study and returns a higher salary range for that government. This goes over and over and over and each study gets a little higher than the last while the private sector is economy and demand based. Salary ranges move with the market and demand.
Every job has a value and it is only worth so much...no matter if it is government or private sector.
In the private sector, if the job gets top heavy with salary for the job description, you either get promoted to something larger or you get replaced with someone that will do the job for what is worth.
In government, once that salary range is exceeded, it just keeps getting larger and larger.
Government is just like Private sector in many ways, you have thousands of lower paid servants and a smaller number of OVERPAID Big-Wigs at the top. It seems like beating a dead horse here, rally the haters, but you need those jobs done, most of you wouldn't even consider those jobs until now, But as a citizen and taxpayer you need your services and would lose your nut if you couldn't get them when you needed them. It seems like EASY TARGET practice to pile on the GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES at any level when you are truly really mad at yourselves for electing President Obama and a bunch of liberals who want everyone on the government tit, that is not the "Workers" fault, it's YOUR fault, you elected the leaders.
The operating regulations, rules, conditions, methods and practices in govt are determined by excutive, judical & legislative branches of government. The private sector doesn't have the same restirctions, but what are these overpaid jobs?
What is the source of your majical numbers, is this research YOU did yourself. Are these numbers from the same current Admistration that fabricates the Unemployment numbers (not counting "people out of work more than a year or not active enough seeking") for political gain, for example getting re-elected in the the fall?
P.S And yes, I'm highly educated and have a good job!
Socialism - When the Government dictates production
Capitalism - When the Government gets out of the way...
and the Market dictates production
The pay level is not the issue, pay rate is the result of negotiation either by the individual or collective (Unions). Complaining about how much anyone makes is Class Envy...
The real problem is what happens to a society where the largest / best paying employer is the Government. Commerce is no longer the goal... The goal becomes what the individual is measured by "Enforcement of Regulation".
Barrow county only has some ~7500 private sector jobs. The largest employer is the Government.
French make wine, Germans make high end cars...
What does Barrow produce? Government regulation to the point of strangulation.
The BOC has been working so hard to control every aspect of Barrow County Commerce... Making sure no one has the slightest chance of producing any thing not approved by the BOC rather then driven by the Market...
Ask your self, is it the problem that people will go to the employer with the highest wage rate
or
Is the problem that private sector employers are strangulated with regulation and arbitrary edicts from the County Government.
"Government's first duty is to Protect the people Not run their lives." Ronald Reagan
The largest employer is the School System, they do produce something, they attempt to educate your kids.
They Produce our future workers and citizens (both public and private), but I guess we need to cut all these "non-producing government jobs"
I guess they dont always suceed at that, thanks for providing us an example.
"Capitalism - When the Government gets out of the way"
---You want Capitalism back, not Marxist or Socialist views, ELECT SOMEONE ELSE NEXT TIME THEN. We Will See in the fall.
I agree, all the whining sounds like class envy but you all look down not up at the govt employee most of the time. they are not the highest paid by far, maybe in Barrow, but 65% of the people here work outside the county anyway...
You know the public school system, the one paid for with property taxes, thereby making it a GOVERNMENT institution aka. employer.
The federal government spends an average of $32,115 a year per employee on non-cash benefits, more than triple the average non-cash compensation of the average private-sector worker ($9,882 a year).
Federal employees receive both a defined-benefit and a defined-contribution pension plan. Employees with enough tenure may retire with full pension benefits at 56.
A federal employee with three years of experience receives four weeks of paid vacation, 10 federal holidays, and 13 days of paid sick leave. A comparable private-sector worker earns an average of 10 fewer days of paid leave.
A majority (52 percent) of union members now work in government. More than twice as many union members work in the Post Office (465,000) as in the entire domestic auto industry (192,000).
The majority of Federal Employees DO NOT have collective bargaining rights. We cannot Strike, cannot Demand anything, it only allows for mutual dicussions that otherwise wouldn't happen about work processes to better serve the agencies (both employees & manangement) and taxpayers.
SOME do (air traffic controllers, postal workers) but MOST don't. Again, MOST DO NOT, they are civil service employees and the pay and benefits are decided by congress. That is this subject: Pay, all the Government unions (not true unions like in the private sector) is negotiate WORKING CONDITIONS, and lobby congress but ALL COMPENSATION is determined by a chart approved by Congress, We can't demand more money because we worked harder or another competing entity might pay me more, so you offer more to keep me.
AND Working Conditions, without the "Sort-of Unions", managemant within many agencies would run rampant, this only serves as a middle ground to protect the working environment and prevent unfair labor practices. If you never have worked there, You have NO IDEA what you are talking about (or dealing with!).
This is not a case in some states like the collective bargaining rights issues concerning public employee unions in Wisconsin. That is news, but that is Wisconsin, not Georgia.
Leverage over Government: Granting unions a monopoly over work done in government gives unions enormous leverage over budgets and taxes. Unions use this power to raise taxes and get more of the budget spent on them.
Inflated Government Pay: Government unions win above-market compensation for their members. The average government employee enjoys better health benefits, better pensions, better job security, and an earlier retirement than the average private-sector worker, although cash wages are typically not inflated at the state or local level.
Forced Union Dues: In the 28 non-right-to-work states, unions negotiate provisions that force government employees to pay union dues or get fired. This brings government unions billions of dollars.
Politicized Civil Service. Government unions have the power to elect the management they negotiate with, so they spend heavily to elect politicians who promise them concessions. Government unions were the top political spenders, outside the two major parties, in the 2010 election cycle.
The Governor wanted state employees to pay 5.8% of their salaries toward their pensions (they pay almost nothing now) and he wanted them to cover 12.6% of their health care premiums (their share would go up from $79 a month to about $200; the average private-sector sap pays about $330). School systems were shut down for over a month while "negotiations" were taking place. No Public Employee should have the right to collective bargaining and even the most liberal of politicians (FDR)could see what lay ahead.
However, this is a hard problem to solve. Let's assume we could make a yearly adjustment to Gov't salaries so they match the local private sector. In good times, we'd give them yearly raises. However, in bad times, we'd have to cut salaries. Imagine how hard that would be on a family who had adjusted to live on whatever salary they were originally offered.
You could solve that by making a base offer, and then any time you extend yearly increases, you explain that these are adjustable based on the economy. I like this idea, since it motivates workers to contribute to the overall success of the local economy -- public "profit sharing."
But making offers to folks in good economic times and having to maintain that salary during bad times is the same risk any private company takes as well.
Public sector jobs do not make those adjustments. The pay scale doesn't take into consideration whether the economy is good or bad. Inflationary adjustments to the Cost of Living Allowences (COLA) are made but that's primarily for Federal Workers overseas. The other adjustment made is the yearly % increase but that is considered a yearly pay raise. During the Carter Administration this yearly raise was non-existent. Reagan re-introduced it and it's continued since albiet a smaller %.
I agree with the above posters who have pointed out that this article was really just written to enflame people against their neighbors and thus sell newspapers, but hey, its what he does.
I would also question the example given of the local city clerk who was paid 110,000 a year.How long was she making that big of a salary for and what other duties did she have. There was an article in the other local paper talking about how she was performing most of the duties of city administrator for a signifigant period of time in addition to her own job.
While the reasons for her termination were political in nature due to the voting controversy that the former mayor embroiled her in, it sounds just like she was trying to dowhat her employer and boss asked her to and didnt know it was wrong(probably because those kinds of shenanigans have always gone on in the mayors office)
Tying all that into a vitiolic attack on the fellow citizens who serve the public just smacks of sensationalism and I think folks should recognize it for what it is.
There was a previous poster who talked about how this recent seeming pay disparity between private and public sectors is only a result of evnvy and perhaps some folks wishing they had taken the slow and steady dirt road as a career path instead of the of the race track, those pile ups can be nasty.These were just a few of my thoughts on all this as I read the article and the ensuing blogging.
On JL's points, this is simple a bash government employees and their compensation article, it groups them all into one single "overpaid" category and class, which is unfair, and they are attacked for the fact that they chose that specific profession that was offered in the workforce.
Lay off the workers, focus on the real waste in DC. Like until recently, Nancy Pelosi who was entitled to a PRIVATE 757 signed off on by Obama to fly her anywhere anytime, How many needed employees could have been paided without more tax money OR how much money (billions) was wasted that has nothing to do with the workforce. We need good people, but only enough to do the jobs, not a job program, employees to do that task, but it is often not the most attractive workplace, so there needs to be incentives.
How many of you are creative, inovative, think outside the box?? Government work would not be for you, because it is a dictated workplace and does not reward that.
So I agree with points on both sides, BUT realize there is a both sides
how much do you make in your job as a news editor and publisher ?
In a county of vindictive petty elected personalities, few people can afford to send years and thousands of $$$$$ to defend their rights because they offended the sensibilities of some elected official.
That's why I blog anonymous most of the time. Requiring IDs would help us (the readers) discount the idiots and their grandstanding BS
Oh I love the Athens Banner feature where you can rate the comment -- plus if you like, misus if you don't.
Jack's problem is that he does not know which clues he has dropped....anyway, he is not Buffington.
Glad to see so Real News finally so we can move on past this B.S. (too bad it's same old crap news though, not the papers fault though)
and No I don't think Jack Legg is Buffington... Mike might pop up out there as someone else, he can if he wants to, so what.. But I really doubt he is JL, It seems to me that Mike is alot sharper than JL just based on the writing even if I dont agree with either of them at times.
This story was paper selling spin, but He wouldn't dare write the same type article about the current Administration in DC, too scared to lose the liberal sales. Workers are easy targets.
For example this story omits the well documented facts that between 1930 and 1970 American private sector workers enjoyed roughly 8% or better pay raises each year or two. The was unprecedented in the history of the world.
In 1970 this all ended. The personal computer raised the productivity of most private sector jobs by over 500% and still no pay raise. This 500% increase in productivity has another name "Profit". So during the highest growth period of our history with technology raising productivity in every area from office work to transportation the workers received zero.
What the bankers did do was create credit cards so Americans could now purchase the food, medicine, cars and such they needed on credit with interest paid vs the costly way of giving a pay raise.
Federal regulations protected the government employees while unregulated financial sector took the rest.
Did the bankers force people to use credit to buy things? I must have been out working when they came by my house to force me to use credit.
Please, tax paying citizens read Democracy in America by Alexis De'Tocquville.
Please, takers of of tax paying citizens money read the same book so you can see the destruction you are causing America.
We now have in America:
Attacks on our soil by foreign peoples
Race warfare
Class warfare
Government workers against the people
Taxation without representation
President demanding/legislating Religious principles
Age warfare
Once again all accepted, by people who want something for nothing, from politicians who promise to take from the working tax payor.
The issue is how did these pay scales get out of balance between private and public sector employees.
Pushing debt onto the public has become the favorite national past time for employers and financial institutions alike.
There was a time when mine workers slaved away in a dust filled mine all day and only made enough money to open a tab at the company store. The employers paid them and then took everything back at the store via price controls that kept the workers poor.
Credit cards were a way to give credit to the entire nation at the same time wages were frozen. Thus allowing the large banks to become "the company store" for the nation.
And yes, the wealthy investors love the whole concept.
We could also talk about how companies pushed tons of toxic waste into our landfills and waterways just to keep their cost down and profits up. Then "tax payers" had to create super funds to clean it up so citizens can stop dying. This method of pushing debt on the working class as a way to increase profits is called "Externalization". They write books about these issues as well.
We could also talk about lung cancer from companies that push tobacco onto the people and then we have to pay their medical care because if the companies that profit from all this misery were held accountable your precious "investors" would be impacted.
Now, the banks are fighting and putting millions in political payola to lobby the congress not to pass a regulation that - now get this - prevents the bank from gambling with investors savings! This was one of the primary reasons for the economic collapse on Wall Street and they are pulling out all the stops to make sure they can continue gambling with money that is not even theirs.