Firefighters battled a house fire on the 1400 block of Carl Bethlehem Road late Thursday night that continued throughout early Friday morning in Barrow County.
According to Lt. Scott Dakin, spokesman with Barrow County Emergency Services, communications officers received a 911 call at 10:42 p.m. Sept. 22 reporting the structure fire in the 1400 block of Carl Bethlehem Road.
The home, described as a long way off the road, was more than five thousand square feet and included a basement and two stories.
“First arriving firefighters found heavy fire conditions in the second floor of the structure,” said Dakin. “The fire had vented through the roof prior to the arrival of fire crews, therefore the decision was made to attack the fire from outside the structure.”
Ladder 7, Engine 4, Med 7 and Battalion 1 were originally dispatched from Barrow County. Engine 3 and Engine 6 came later with more water.
Deputy Chief John Skinner and Captain Bryan Bullock also came in from their homes to assist in firefighting efforts. West Jackson Fire Department and Jackson Trail Fire Department assisted in delivering water to the scene by utilizing their tanker trucks.
Due to the water issues firefighters were not able to contain the fire before it completely engulfed the first and second floors and started spreading to the basement.
The fire left one person displaced. The American Red Cross responded to the scene to assist them.
The cause of the fire is currently under investigation.
#1.1.1
Just saying
on
09/23/11 at 04:23 PM
[Reply]
They only needed the water to surround and drowned. With enough manpower it could have been stopped with the water they had. Don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.
Those pictures was made over an hour and well after the initial attempt to knock the fire down. You don't need many fire fighters after the decision is made to let it go.
Seems like somebody ought to be able to sue them for negligence.They knew that to cut the fire department staff down to one or two people a truck would cause more damage whenever there is a fire.They knew that there would be less ALS units to respond to medical emergecies and wrecks.They gutted the fire department anyway.
If you look at the pictures in this article you will see one that shows a lieutentant on the nozzle.thats not supposed to happen , he is the supervisor of his Engine crew.But the commisioners aparently took away his firefighters so he has to do all the work. Fine, but dont expect the same amount of work from one Firefighter that you get from 3 or 4.
It takes a certain number of guys to supply the truck with water on the fire scene, a fire doubles in size every minute, I dont know what barrow county has for an initial alarm on a residential structure fire but if you have one or two guys on the initial assignment and they have to do the work of 7 0r 8 you can see how they can quickly get behind the eight ball.Once behind , you cant catch up in a fire, about all you can do at that point is protect exposures.
If my house burns Im gonna sue those jack ass commisioners personaly and I encourage anyone to do the same.
You notice how all the ones that were photo'd working were Lt's or Chief's, where's the regular joe's ? I dont think you can sue the government over something like that, if you cause the fire or through your own negligence, it is their job to contain the fire from spreading, not saving your house from your own mistake. Once a truck arrives, there are directives on place that prohibit some actions being able to take place without the necessary manpower. Remember the man that drowned in S.F with the firemen watching because they could not enter the water due to "reduced manpower and improper life saving equipment" !
OK Barrow Journal how about doing a follow up with how many firemen was on that first due engine? If a structure is going to be saved. It's usually from a knock down from the first firemen on the scene in the first few minutes of them arriving. Was this residence covered with enough initial manpower or not? I'm not talking about second and third due engines coming from half way across the county.
#6.1
udontneed2know
on
09/23/11 at 11:11 PM
[Reply]
First in engine would be engine 4, staffed with two personnel. All apparatus are staffed with no more than two personnel and on occasion only one. Med 4 would also have two firefighters. Truck 7 should have arrived very soon after with two personnel as well. Initial assignment on a residential fire is two engines(or one engine and the truck as this was truck 7's second in), one med unit and a battalion chief. That's six personnel and a chief. Additional units are usually requested pretty quick once its determined additional manpower will be needed.
So are you saying that the firetruck had only two people on board and one of them is the driver/pump operator? That only leaves one fireman for the initial attack? Surely you are mistaken.
Are the EMT's on the ambulance required to fight fire also? What if someone at the residence requires medical attention? Or even worse, one of the firemen is injured or one of the EMT's is injured? What happens then?
The ambulance crew is usually the ones that initially fight the fire, ambulances. If someone is hurt, or even worse a firefighter gets hurt, everyone on the scene is trained to at least EMT level. So when someone gets hurt, usually fire operations stop for a t least two firemen.
#9
Are you kidding
on
09/24/11 at 01:49 AM
[Reply]
Well now I don't feel so bad. I thought it was just Law Enforcement that got all of these negative comments. NOPE, apparently some of the same people in here are experts in firefighting and personell management too. I love how some of these people Monday morning quarterback a lot of the articles in the paper but are most likely the same ones who do nothing about the very issues they are complaining about.
Some people really need to get a different hobby, your just making yourselves look that much more idiotic, not to forget misinformed. It's very obvious some know NOTHING about responding too, or actually fighting fires. KEEP ON BLOGGING, very entertaining.
yours is the only negative post here. The questions being asked are the right ones hopefully designed to point out the inadequacies of what yearwood has done to destroy public safety.
You , my friend have proven to all who read over the last week or two that you know absolutly nothing about the police business, do we really have to watch you show what you dont know about the fire dept.?
#9.1.1
Are you kidding
on
09/24/11 at 02:42 PM
[Reply]
Really? Go back and read jims post then tell me if mine was negative. as far as me knowing "nothing about police business" , well , your very wrong about that also. If you say you have seen my past posts then you would know I am currently in law enforcement and have been for almost 16 years. Think that makes me a bit qualified to respond to public safety comments. You don't HAVE to watch me do a thing, but if there are going to be the same comments in here then there have been in past stories,....you will see me keep responding, your choice if you choose to "watch", not mine.
I was a voluntier firemen where i come From. The county that i lived in. The county didn't have paid firemen every thing was voluntier or paid and voluntier. Depends on which city you lived in. county didn't own no fire eguipment. But had an Firemans association. which it was made up of all the fire departments in that county which 99 percent was voluntier and the citys owned the eguipment and the townships. But when we got a call for a fire we couldin't leave the statione with out no less than 4 on a truck which was state law if you wher short you caled for back up before leaving the station
Here are the facts. First in crew (Engine 4, Med 4, Truck 7, Battalion 1) total of 7 people that are ALL trained to fight fire. Due to the location of the structure additional units were requested. Two tankers from Jackson County responded to the scene on top of 3 additional engines. First in engine would have a Lt and a driver with additional two people from Med unit. In the event that there is an injured person on the scene then the Med unit crew would be committed to treating the injured person. If a fireman is injured while on scene the ff is treated on the scene and transported by an additional unit requested by the person in charge or crews are pulled away to treat and transport the person rapidly. Chairman Yearwood has not done anything with the staffing levels other than not increasing them to the National Fire Protection Association standard, which calls for 4 per engine with a minimum of 3. That is the standard that Gwinnett County adheres to. today. Since the structure was well involved on the second story of the house and NFPA say's you have to have 2 outside at the ready in order to put 2 on the inside the amount of fire attack would have been limited for several key minutes. Then add to the issue that the house was "way off the road" water supply became an issue. It's sad that the house burnt to the ground due to the water issues but in today's times it is very difficult to allow fire crews to go into a house on fire to save two by fours and contents. When they knew occupants were safely outside it becomes a question of risking the crews lives to safe a house. Those are the facts that Barrow operates on a daily basis. Public safety is a hot button issue and the Fire Department along with the Sheriff department attempt to do the best job that they can do with the resources(water and manpower).
So we do not have enough fireman on these engines to meet the National Fire Protection Association standards? What does that do to the areas insurance rates for fire protection?
Any reason City of Winder cannot get involved. Seems to me our tax dollars pay for many an ambulance ride for those inside city limits. The response time would have been a heck of alot quicker than a Jackson County unit. There are answers to these issues, but politics and power trump safety and common sense in Barrow County every tiime.
"You can pay me now, or you can pay me later." Remember the old Fram oil filter commercial. You can live on the cheap and take the risk, or you can be proactive and keep fire protection levels at the recommended levels of 3-4 men per truck.
I would much prefer to pay more in taxes now to insure that if I had a fire the first on scene would be sufficient to knock down the fire.
But even more, I'd much rather that the EMS units were sufficiently staffed so that if a call came in that I needed medical help a unit would quickly be able to respond. Today, I'd probably be better off crawling into my truck and trying to get to the hospital on my own.
I'm wondering the same thing. While our Emts are out fighting a fire and here I am 3 miles away and have a heart attack. Guess I'm just SOL while I lay here and wait on the next closest station. Or the Emt's are doing their job and are out on a med call. Then my house catches on fire. Sounds like the fire truck will be showing up with one driver/pump operator and ONE fireman. Looks like I'm SOL again. Do all the fire stations have a med unit?
Don't count yourself so lucky with one driver and one fireman. Many times the engine rolls with a driver only and no firefighter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
UT-OH, med 5 just got toned out to a wreck on Rockwell Church Rd. They could be gone for hours especially if they have to transport to Athens or Gwinnett. Sure hope no ones house catches on fire in station 5's territory until they can get back in service.
First, let me say I have the highest respect for the firefighters who serve this county and this country. They do the best job they can with what they have to work with. So don't blame the firemen...blame the leadership.
As a former volunteer firefighter in this county, you can blame the county for what we have now. Before the commission ran off all the volunteers, there was an average staff of about 20 well trained volunteers at all 4 of the county stations and the same in Winder. The response time was similar to the times we see now. The ISO ratings were about the same but we spent about a half million dollars a year on the fire service that could turn out 100 firefighters on a major fire or event. You could not turn out 25 today if you called every employee with the fire service in the county. By the way, I think the Fire budget is 5 million or better today vs. a half million when the volunteers staffed the departments. Each station had a full time day firefighter who kept the equipment in proper shape.
The major cost was an equipment replacement such as an engine or tanker. Manpower was only the daytime full time firefighters at each station. And don't forget the chicken BBQ at each station to raise money for equipment for the departments...don't see that anymore.
Don't tell me that they were not trained as well. That is hogwash. Each volunteer had 12 months to finish the basic firefighters training course and within 36 months to completed the advanced firefighters course. A large number of volunteer firemen were also EMT's and staffed certified "First Responder" medical units. Putting a medical personnel on a heart attack scene within minutes of the call. When the ambulance staff need addtional personnel, they either drove the ambulance to the hospital or assisted in the rear with a major patient or multiple patients. They also ran the rescue with the "Jaws of Life" in the case of entrapment. How long does it take to get a unit on the scene now for the 5 million you pay.
You say Barrow's too big for volunteers now...you might be right, however some counties like Jackson County who has an all volunteer department and Forsythe County, with a much larger population than Barrow still has a volunteer department. As a matter of fact, most of this country has volunteer service.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you could go back to that system today, couldn't get the volunteers...and the ones that were run off would not likely come back. So, if you want more manpower at each fire station, you've got to pay the price...add another 5 million for the staffing.
The Sheriff Dept had a large part in getting rid of the volunteers. They didn't like the idea of 20 volunteer fireman having their cars parked along the road at a fire. Didn't matter that a fire scene had 20 certified fire fighters working. They just wanted to keep the traffic flowing. I say screw the traffic. Let them detour around it. There was even insistence's where they tried to have the volunteers cars towed.
Sir, I have to disagrfee with the reason the Sheriff's Office didnt want the volunteers. I was a deputy then and we had a rash of accidents where young volunteers put red lights on their vehicles and would speed to a call. The only thing is, is that they caused accidents while on the way. I dont discount the advantages of volunteers but please dont make up something just to get a rise from some folks (enough people like to raise cain on their own). We didnt care if the road was blocked, that made our job easier. We could just stop traffic and not allow anyone to get through. It was the danger these young "kids" who got their red light put everyone in when they tried to act as emergency vehicles.
Got to agree with you here. I was a volunteer in Barrow for 14 years and we never had ANY problem with deputies, most of the guys at my station didnt even use the little red lights because if you did and had a wreck you would loose your car insurance.The demise of the volunteers had more to do with an increased call volume, and more and more volunteers working 20 to 30 miles away.Add to that the state requiring ever more training hours to stay certified.
The problem of the increased call volume wasnt in fires but in medical calls, not even serious medical calls but more on the order of convalescent calls, where you had a lot of new comers move into the area that needed a ambulance ride to the hospital everytime they had a stomach ache or a sore muscle.Probably if we had just stayed with only fire responsed and left off the medical we would still have a force for evenings and weekend responses.The trouble is trying to be all things for all people.
And I have to disagree with you ex-deputy. I don't know which Sheriff you worked under. I was a volunteer for many many years. We did have a problem with the sheriff dept and our cars along the roads. It happened to me personally. The sheriffs son had Eldo backed up to my truck one night demanding it be towed. Eldo refused because he knew me and my truck. When I say "sheriffs son" I'm sure you old timers know who I'm talking about. I apologize for getting off subject here. But felt a correction needed to made. I'm enjoying hearing how the fire dept is currently being run.
funny aint it? how two people in the same field and same period of time had such vastly different experiences with the same people, Bucky never gave us a problem at my station.
We never had much problems with Bucky or any of the deputies either, however I heard about the case where he wanted to tow a fireman's car at another station. Bucky caught a lot of heat for it too. Back then, the firemen could turn out a lot of support for a political candidate or really turn up the heat. Hundred to hundred and fifty firemen and thier families..and they all voted.
Anyway, back on topic. I agree that the high number of medical calls we responded to took a toll on each station. It is still going on but we don't hear about it too much any more. The useless trash that used the ambulance service as a taxi to the emergency room so they would not have to sit out in the waiting room to see a physician. Can't tell you how many times we responded to a government apartment to find 5 adults siting on their butts watching TV at 3 a.m. and each one having a car parked outside. The patient would be complaining of an ear ache or stomach cramps or time to see the baby doctor, we'd ask if no one here had a vehicle that could have taken you to the hospital...the answer was always no. Wonder who picked their sorry butts up after the free ride to the doctor. End of rant...that was years ago. Glad I don't have to put up with that crap anymore. Sorry there are those who still do.
If you look at the pictures in this article you will see one that shows a lieutentant on the nozzle.thats not supposed to happen , he is the supervisor of his Engine crew.But the commisioners aparently took away his firefighters so he has to do all the work. Fine, but dont expect the same amount of work from one Firefighter that you get from 3 or 4.
It takes a certain number of guys to supply the truck with water on the fire scene, a fire doubles in size every minute, I dont know what barrow county has for an initial alarm on a residential structure fire but if you have one or two guys on the initial assignment and they have to do the work of 7 0r 8 you can see how they can quickly get behind the eight ball.Once behind , you cant catch up in a fire, about all you can do at that point is protect exposures.
If my house burns Im gonna sue those jack ass commisioners personaly and I encourage anyone to do the same.
Some people really need to get a different hobby, your just making yourselves look that much more idiotic, not to forget misinformed. It's very obvious some know NOTHING about responding too, or actually fighting fires. KEEP ON BLOGGING, very entertaining.
You , my friend have proven to all who read over the last week or two that you know absolutly nothing about the police business, do we really have to watch you show what you dont know about the fire dept.?
I would much prefer to pay more in taxes now to insure that if I had a fire the first on scene would be sufficient to knock down the fire.
But even more, I'd much rather that the EMS units were sufficiently staffed so that if a call came in that I needed medical help a unit would quickly be able to respond. Today, I'd probably be better off crawling into my truck and trying to get to the hospital on my own.
As a former volunteer firefighter in this county, you can blame the county for what we have now. Before the commission ran off all the volunteers, there was an average staff of about 20 well trained volunteers at all 4 of the county stations and the same in Winder. The response time was similar to the times we see now. The ISO ratings were about the same but we spent about a half million dollars a year on the fire service that could turn out 100 firefighters on a major fire or event. You could not turn out 25 today if you called every employee with the fire service in the county. By the way, I think the Fire budget is 5 million or better today vs. a half million when the volunteers staffed the departments. Each station had a full time day firefighter who kept the equipment in proper shape.
The major cost was an equipment replacement such as an engine or tanker. Manpower was only the daytime full time firefighters at each station. And don't forget the chicken BBQ at each station to raise money for equipment for the departments...don't see that anymore.
Don't tell me that they were not trained as well. That is hogwash. Each volunteer had 12 months to finish the basic firefighters training course and within 36 months to completed the advanced firefighters course. A large number of volunteer firemen were also EMT's and staffed certified "First Responder" medical units. Putting a medical personnel on a heart attack scene within minutes of the call. When the ambulance staff need addtional personnel, they either drove the ambulance to the hospital or assisted in the rear with a major patient or multiple patients. They also ran the rescue with the "Jaws of Life" in the case of entrapment. How long does it take to get a unit on the scene now for the 5 million you pay.
You say Barrow's too big for volunteers now...you might be right, however some counties like Jackson County who has an all volunteer department and Forsythe County, with a much larger population than Barrow still has a volunteer department. As a matter of fact, most of this country has volunteer service.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you could go back to that system today, couldn't get the volunteers...and the ones that were run off would not likely come back. So, if you want more manpower at each fire station, you've got to pay the price...add another 5 million for the staffing.
The problem of the increased call volume wasnt in fires but in medical calls, not even serious medical calls but more on the order of convalescent calls, where you had a lot of new comers move into the area that needed a ambulance ride to the hospital everytime they had a stomach ache or a sore muscle.Probably if we had just stayed with only fire responsed and left off the medical we would still have a force for evenings and weekend responses.The trouble is trying to be all things for all people.
Anyway, back on topic. I agree that the high number of medical calls we responded to took a toll on each station. It is still going on but we don't hear about it too much any more. The useless trash that used the ambulance service as a taxi to the emergency room so they would not have to sit out in the waiting room to see a physician. Can't tell you how many times we responded to a government apartment to find 5 adults siting on their butts watching TV at 3 a.m. and each one having a car parked outside. The patient would be complaining of an ear ache or stomach cramps or time to see the baby doctor, we'd ask if no one here had a vehicle that could have taken you to the hospital...the answer was always no. Wonder who picked their sorry butts up after the free ride to the doctor. End of rant...that was years ago. Glad I don't have to put up with that crap anymore. Sorry there are those who still do.