Downtown Winder may get huge shot in the arm; plan under way for it to become center of county government

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Friday, August 12. 2011

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Downtown Winder may be about to get the biggest shot in the arm it has had since 2009, the year that the county’s judicial system moved to the new courthouse and jail off Highway 211.

The county’s health director, Dr. Claude Burnett, in a letter Wednesday told county officials that during a recent tour of the vacant jail in the historic courthouse complex he found many “positives” to the idea of relocating the health department there from its current location in the county's administration building at 233 East Broad St.

Burnett wrote: "The location and visibility in downtown Winder is excellent. The parking, as proposed, should be ample and there is certainly more square footage in the building as a whole. The current health department has 9,742 square feet for clinical services. Environmental health is located in a separate facility and needs 2,500 square feet."

His letter indicates that the $1 million in SPLOST funds collected for the health department would be enough to renovate only 10,000 square feet of the facility, and the department would need additional space set aside for future growth.

"For future expansion, the health department would eventually need more than the proposed 10,000 square feet," Burnett wrote. "Eventually we would need the entire first floor of the facility in order to incorporate environmental health as well as any future expansion of clinical services."

Also on Wednesday, a committee overseeing the ongoing renovation of the county's downtown courthouse complex took steps that could lead to county offices vacating the current administration building and moving there. The millions of dollars in funding for the project already is in place.

The committee directed the project's architects to create within about two weeks a plan for how to reuse the office space within the complex. And operations development manager Bob Hohe said the committee directed him to write county attorney Angela Davis to ask her to research the legal issues surrounding the potential abandonment of the current East Broad Street administrative building.

The tentative plan is to possibly relocate all of the East Broad Street offices to the renovated courthouse and annex. Sheriff Jud Smith plans to use only two of the four stories of the annex building. At a minimum, Hohe said, the thinking is to relocate the county departments that have high traffic volumes, such as the Tax Assessor’s Office and the Tax Commissioner’s Office.

Additional parking is planned adjacent to the complex, and the relocation of some or all of the county’s offices would bring thousands of citizens – and potential diners and shoppers – back downtown.

Hohe said the current timeline calls for the jail and annex renovations to be completed by September 2012.

Once the Sheriff’s consolidated offices relocate to the annex building, work would begin on the renovation of the courthouse, Hohe said.

The renovated courthouse then could house the offices of the county chairman and county commissioners, and future meetings of the Barrow County Board of Commissioners likely would be held in the courthouse's former Superior Court courtroom.

To read more about this issue, pick up the Aug. 17 edition of the Barrow Journal.

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#1 Beth on 08/12/11 at 10:08 AM [Reply]

Didn't we just MOVE the health dept/tag office etc. INTO the annex? WHY would we want to move them back? I thought that building was FULL of mold?????
We do not have the money to do this! and NOBODY wants to go downtown because the traffic is horrible!
WHO came up with this brilliant plan? and how much is it going to cost US, the taxpayers?????????

#2 Beth on 08/12/11 at 10:10 AM [Reply]

Shot in the arm??? LMBO
more like kick in the rear!!!!
Bet Doug Garrison played SOME part in this shady deal!

#3 Fortitude on 08/12/11 at 11:51 AM [Reply]

wonder if the health department would stop treating those who cannot pay for services or abuse the system, then less people treated, the less space needed

#4 Tiffany on 08/12/11 at 11:55 AM [Reply]

This idea is crazy...those building are going to need alot more than 10,000 to renovate why would we want to attract more indviduals to our abandoned downtown with all the stores closing also I agree with Beth the Traffic is HORRIBLE...we already pay a 7% tax higher than other counties...so this plan is crazy.

#4.1 Jack Legg on 08/12/11 at 02:31 PM [Reply]

This is too funny...down town winder was where the traditional seat of county government was until garrison moved it outside of the downtown to an inconvienint location
.now he wants to be on winders city council? he is personaly responsoble for a huge percentage of city owned business to just dissappear.
Aside from the problems that garrison created when he did this it is a pipe dream to ever think about putting things back like they used to be, the money just isnt there anymore.

#4.1.1 Beth on 08/12/11 at 04:48 PM [Reply]

Can't believe that for ONCE I agree with Jack A#* !!!!
I KNEW Garrison had a hand in this!!!!!
oh, ps Jack: PLEASE use spellcheck, your "barra County edumacation" is way too evident.

#4.1.1.1 PLEASE on 08/12/11 at 06:40 PM [Reply]

Beth, PLEASE stop using CAPS in every other WORD you say in your POSTS. It looks SILLY and you COME across LOOKING like a 5th GRADE drop out.

#4.2 Anonymous on 08/12/11 at 02:50 PM [Reply]

10,000 square feet not dollars.

**********$1,000,000 DOLLARS**************
for only 10,000 square feet

#5 MollyRose on 08/12/11 at 02:35 PM [Reply]

This is crazy talk people. The people who come up with these ideas must be terribly bored. Get back to work folks and quit playing around with the taxpayers money. Can you imagine having to find a place to park, go in, wait in line for hours to get your tag? AND, where does the SS office get off closing at 3 pm? Are they still getting paid for the entire day? Make it a little harder on retirees, why don't you?

#5.1 Beth on 08/12/11 at 07:34 PM [Reply]

It is ONLY 30 minutes of time they are getting off early, and they will actually be working.
If you are retired then it really is not an inconvenience to you is it? After all, you don't work! Stop whining, and be glad there is still Social Security at all.

#6 Not a Dimes difference on 08/12/11 at 04:27 PM [Reply]

And this is the problem of the Barrow Welfare economic mentality, We look to the government to be the source of income for the private sector because there is NO other source of commerce in this county.

The BOC and Winder Government have done everything they can to hinder any Small businesses that do not meet their vision or offends their personal sensibilities. Their arrogance has made the citizens completely dependent on the government's table scrapes to create any kind of new money coming into the economy.

Until Winder and the County (BOC) get out of the way of Small business, you will have to look to the government for your pay check.

I thought this was a Republican county? I still don't see a dimes difference between a democrat and a republican in this county.

#6.1 Michael Robinson on 08/12/11 at 06:00 PM [Reply]

How are they in the way?

#6.1.1 Not a dimes difference on 08/12/11 at 08:06 PM [Reply]

Ask the businesses they have denied licenses; Ask the home care facility -- how many years where they in business with a state license?
Ask the medical billing business they chased into Gwinnett county;
Ask the child care facility;
Ask the home salon owners;
Ask the local garage owner;
Ask the local horse stables;

Want me to go on? I can -- I can list many small business that offended the sensibilities of some BOC member in the past 10 years. What do you have now in Barrow County? Empty store fronts, Empty business parks, Empty commercial properties and a citizen subsidized county airport playground.

I still don't see a dimes difference between a democrat and a republican in this county.

#6.1.1.1 Free Market Economy ? on 08/13/11 at 06:35 AM [Reply]

Here's a story Idea, Barrow Journal. You are so fast to write up the domestic abuse, bad check, defaulted loan story. Why don't you print the names and story's behind the Small Businesses that have offended some BOC member after years of operation.

I'd be interested in seeing in seeing just how pro business, pro AG, pro entrepreneur, Pro Free Market economy this republican county really is... "Free Market" is a simple concept, only the market will determine if an idea is good or bad... Welcome the entrepreneur, the market will say who says or goes. Not the Government

#7 Anonymous on 08/12/11 at 07:04 PM [Reply]

Well that's all we need. All these welfare brood mares and there youngands piling into downtown. I'm sure while there they will do some shopping and eating at some of downtown Winders finest restaurants and shops.

#8 John Perkins on 08/12/11 at 08:04 PM [Reply]

Beth, you got any ideas? Or do you just complain?

#8.1 Beth on 08/12/11 at 08:37 PM [Reply]

Ummmm....Gee....let me think...............
OK, how 'bout LEAVE the offices where they are!!!!
1.bulldoze the courthouse annex, and
2.build a beautiful downtown city park in it's place.
3. Kick ALL the "good ole boys" out of Barrow County Politics and start over with fresh ideas and perspectives.
4. prohibit tractor trailers from coming through downtown
5. market downtown to promote small businesses(see number 3 above)such as coffee shops, antique shops, boutiques.
6. make the "good ole boys" that own dilapidated property fix it up, or bulldoze it.(example: Old Peskin's Store...) There are many that are eyesores and embarrassments.
7. get rid of the "thrifty stores" and tacky "car washes" near the Community Center.

8. Synchronize the traffic signals so they IMPROVE the flow of traffic, not IMPEDE it.

9. Instead of paying city workers (who by the way took one HOUR each ribbon to put up yellow ribbons) use volunteers to decorate the Downtown area all year long! and No, I do NOT mean those ancient, outdated snowflakes and ugly santas that are up EVERY year.
We spent all that money to build the Community Center, then we have the arts building next to it, but in the SAME block there are run-down rat infested buildings. bulldoze them, and make that nice area into a plaza of some kind with outdoor dining, ice cream vendors, maybe even small arts festivals, etc.
The bottom line is Winder is an embarrassment to everyone! People laugh when I tell them where I live! Until we start over with fresh faces, ideas, and outlooks,and attitudes it will NEVER change! On the side where the fire dept. is we need businesses with balconies upstairs for dining, socializing and people watching. What about a FABULOUS fountain somewhere in the area???
Come on people get real. NOBODY wants to open a business in that crumbling, ancient, gridlocked downtown area.

#8.1.1 Allah Akbar on 08/13/11 at 05:39 AM [Reply]

Beth,

Run for office; City Council, County Commissioner, Board of Education, etc. STOP complaining and take action. Though you must be more original than above. Start researching each of your thoughts above and you'll find out that 1) action already taken or 2) much tougher and costs to taxpayers too high. You're dumber than I originally thought. Go back to Atlanta and leave us Winderians alone.

#8.1.1.1 Beth on 08/13/11 at 09:04 AM [Reply]

WRONG again Allah!
These ideas MAY have been talked about, but they were NEVER acted on, and the cost would NOT be paid for by US, the taxpayers. Since our illustrous DA sees fit to give all the criminals probation and fines and community service instead of jail, THERE is our FREE labor force to tear down the courthouse annex. There is our FREE labor to build the park.

If we (see number 3) got some new, fresh faces in local offices that were NOT "good ole boys" we would have NO trouble marketing to businesses. Can you see Yearwood trying to get a company to move to Winder??? LMBO

If we (see number 3) would aggressively target these slumlords and MAKE them do something with the run down property they own, or bulldoze it, how is that COSTING us anything???? Fine them when they don't comply!
All fines would go directly into the "park" fund.

How much could it possibly cost to prohibit tractor trailers??? A few signs, and a few citations to violators....Hey, there is some more revenue! the fines would go directly into the "park" fund.
So, I HAVE researched my ideas, and no ACTION has ever been taken on ANY of them. (see number 3) "good ole boys" will not ever take action against other "good ole boys." THAT is why if we JUST did number 3 the rest would fall into place!

@nota dimes: I would LOVE to see the names of all the businesses chased out of Barrow! I KNOW about the medical billing co, and the home health care is obvious, but what are some of the others? It is obvious the BJ will not do a story on it, so why don't YOU??? Thanks.

@weighing my options: PLEASE tell about YOUR small business that was run out of the county... If we are to EVER change things we HAVE to call them on the carpet. Thanks

#8.1.1.1.1 STOP! on 08/16/11 at 08:29 AM [Reply]

Beth, for the love of all that is holy please stop putting every other word in CAPS. Your opinion will continue to be belittled until you can start articulating your conversations with something more than 5th grade grammar.

Also - please stop complaining about "the good 'ole boys" from barrow county. This isn't Dukes of Hazzard.

#8.1.1.1.1.1 Beth on 08/16/11 at 10:06 AM [Reply]

@STOP: You see THIS is why I am glad to be an American, where we still(for the time being) have freedom of speech. It means I am free to put ANYTHING I choose in CAPS. I could care less if my posts are belittled or not, it is an OPINION!

As for the "good ole boys": until Cletis T. Judd and Boss Hogg stay out of politics, and they stop running this town like Hazzard then I will CONTINUE to call them out! It is the "good ole boys" that GOT us into this mess, and it is the "good ole boys" who CONTINUE to keep this county in the dark ages!

and......are you the OFFICIAL spokesperson for the "good ole boys?"
Actually Dukes of Hazzard was MUCH more entertaining than this backwards place!

#8.1.2 Weighing my options on 08/13/11 at 07:23 AM [Reply]

Beth, you run for election! Your ideas are right on the mark. You and "Not a Dimes" seem to get the big picture.

If I wasn't too busy running my small business chased out of Barrow, I'd consider chairman.

#9 Allah Akbar on 08/13/11 at 05:30 AM [Reply]

Winder needs to celebrate Ramadan!

#10 Actively working in down town on 08/13/11 at 11:57 AM [Reply]

Beth,
How much do you have personally invested in down town? Do you have the funds to fix or bulldoze any of the buildings? Can you pay the notes off on these buildings once the are bulldozed? Are you volunteering your time and money to purchase new Christmas decor and put it up? Are you going to pay the rent/note payment on these buildings when the current car washes and thrifty stores move out? Are you marketing downtown to up scales investors or are you just running down the town you call home? I agree with the others; run for office, invest, volunteer, or get out!

#10.1 Calm down Jerry/Larry/Doug on 08/13/11 at 04:17 PM [Reply]

She just came up with ideas that might actually work.

#10.2 Yeah on 08/13/11 at 04:27 PM [Reply]

Beth, show yourself, tell us what you have done. I bet just complain.

#10.3 Beth on 08/13/11 at 05:43 PM [Reply]

A. I have my children and grandchildren's FUTURE invested in Downtown. (and everyone else's children and grandchildren)

Again, I recommend we use inmate labor, and community service workers to demolish the annex, and build the park.
WE, the taxpayers are paying the notes off now, we would continue to do so, just makes it much more pleasant for our tax dollars to be spent paying for a beautiful park than a rat infested, dilapidated building.
If the owners of these run down buildings do not clean them up or tear them down-FINE them!! If tractor-trailers continue to go through Downtown-FINE them! ALL fines go into the park fund.
How do you figure it would COST us to prohibit 18 wheelers in Downtown?? A couple of signs, and a little extra patrol............
As to the decorations I would be more than happy to volunteer my time. I am saying it is a waste to PAY city workers to put up decorations! Seriously, I watched th guy that put up the yellow ribbons. It took him ONE HOUR for each little ribbon.(After he would take a break and smoke 2 or 3 cigarettes in a city truck)
For the LAST time, If we got all the "good ole boys" out of the positions they were in, and had some new innovative thinkers on board we COULD market downtown to upscale investors.

#10.3.1 Michael Robinson on 08/14/11 at 06:03 AM [Reply]

The better solution is to find out why the trucks go through Winder. I don't see any distribution centers that would require a trip through it.

Once we figure that out, the city can work with the trucking companies to find a better route that doesn't go through Winder.

#10.3.1.1 Anonymous on 08/14/11 at 07:33 AM [Reply]

It's a short cut. They are coming from the distribution facilities in the Conyers/Monroe area. Rather than take 20 to 285 to 85 North, they short cut.

#10.3.1.1.1 Michael Robinson on 08/14/11 at 10:24 AM [Reply]

Ouch. Sending them off on a 50 mile detour is probably not going to do it. The companies would lobby the state to force Winder to remove the fine.

Unless Google Maps is way off, I-85 from Conyers through Lawrenceville is about a mile further. I think it would end up using less gas for them with the trucks not having to slow to a crawl in Winder's downtown.

Getting the companies who operate from there to use the different route (using gas savings to sell the idea) would help boost Winder's downtown, and the increase in tax revenue could fund a bypass for the trucks from Monroe.

#10.3.1.1.1.1 Anonymous on 08/14/11 at 10:45 AM [Reply]

I don't see why they can't take Patrick Mill, make the right, left, right, left jig (@29) onto Pearl Pentecostal, then Carl-Bethlehem to 211 -- you know the route the by-pass was going to take. If they absolutely must end up on 53, then they can go straight up Rockwell Church.

By pass downtown Winder, fewer lights, few stop signs, less traffic.

#10.3.1.1.1.1.1 Michael Robinson on 08/14/11 at 11:00 AM [Reply]

Most of them are probably using GPS and never learn the path they're taking well enough to pick a better route. That's why it needs to be an effort on the part of the city and the companies.

My own GPS likes to suggest shorter routes with more traffic and slower posted limits when an empty highway is available.

The businesses will like it for the time and fuel savings. The drivers will like it for not having to crawl through Winder. Winder will like it for the improved QOL downtown.

It's a rare solution that satisfies everyone.

#10.3.2 Not that easy on 08/14/11 at 06:38 AM [Reply]

Beth I think you have some good ideas but they are not that easy. It is easy for you to just sit back and talk about these "grand ideas.". You contracitc yourself beimg a champion for small business but you want to kick the thrift shop and carwash out. You want to limit trucks from downtown, but Broad street is a state route and can't be done by the City the state would have to do it also any red-light work. As far as fine money there is things that can and can't be done with fine money. A lot of the money goes to the state and other state projects. Only a certain % of the fine stayes with the county. Inmate labor is a great thing but I would not use a trained fast food cook to demolish a 4-story building. I'm not saying your ideas are bad they are just not that easy to fix.

#10.3.2.1 Allah Akbar on 08/14/11 at 07:48 AM [Reply]

http://www.tunspan.com/winderlci/docs/WinderMarketAnalysis.pdf

Good study conducted 1 year ago about Winder.

#10.3.2.2 Beth on 08/14/11 at 09:03 AM [Reply]

Thanks for your input. I know it's easy to talk about, but harder to achieve.
I am trying NOT to contradict myself....but....Those "car washes" across from the Community Center are not really even businesses! I am definitely pro small business! I just think we would be better served having attractive and unique offerings for people to come, shop, and spend $$$$
As far as inmate/community service labor I agree that we would have to have an experienced contractor to oversee the project, but under supervision it CAN be done by untrained workers. In my hometown the community (men, women, and children) got together and demolished a 70 year old 3-story factory to put in a city park.
There is no need for large trucks to come through downtown. Winder is the only small town I know of that allows this.
As far as fines go, I was not aware of this, but there is absolutely NO reason to continue to let these slumlords get by with their run down, shabby, eyesore buildings!
Maybe my ideas are not the best in the world, but they HAVE to be an improvement over the current state of Downtown Winder.
Also The Historic Granite Hotel would make a perfect Bed & Breakfast, or upscale hotel.

#10.3.3 Allah Akbar on 08/14/11 at 07:34 AM [Reply]

1) Use of penal labor is a great idea and authorized under 2010 Georgia Code
TITLE 36 - LOCAL GOVERNMENT
PROVISIONS - PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO COUNTIES, MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS, AND OTHER GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES
CHAPTER 91 - PUBLIC WORKS BIDDING
ARTICLE 2 - CONTRACTING AND BIDDING REQUIREMENTS. The problem again is work experience. Is the labor force experienced in this area or not? The answer is not. But using the existing human capital for decor is right on.
2) Truck traffic access is needed based on store locations in the downtown area. Creating alternative routes to those locations is expensive, time consuming, and disruptinve.
3) Light synchronization attempted several times previously. Another cost to taxpayers.
4) Park is in the planning stage. Use of inmate labor is a possibility here as well.
5) Buildings. If the owner doesn't have the money to fix the building they won't have it to pay a fine. What's the solution? Put them in jail, auction property (immiment domain issue), city take-over (imminent domain issue), etc. Some of these buildings are nothing short of albatrosses.

Beth-you have advanced the debate. Now, where does it go from here?

#10.3.3.1 Anonymous on 08/14/11 at 01:09 PM [Reply]

SEE 10.3.1.1.1.1 above -- not expensive at all to make an alternate route around Winder

#11 Meredith Cameron on 08/14/11 at 09:00 AM [Reply]

Unless something has recently changed, Broad Street through downtown Winder is a State Highway and the city of Winder has no say in who travels that road. The city can't fine tractor trailer trucks who travel a state highway unless there are specific stipulations put on the roadway by the State. So, Beth, please take that one off your list of fix-its unless you want to start lobbying the Georgia DOT. The city is not to blame for that one!

#11.1 Beth on 08/14/11 at 01:59 PM [Reply]

@meredith: Yes, the city IS to blame! This problem should have been taken care of YEARS ago!
I would be more than happy to persuade the DOT. I don't think it will be a problem to get them to change it, due to the fact that school busses travel Broad St daily. There is also a fire station located right in the heart of downtown, and hopefully one day Broad St. will be pedestrian and bike friendly as well. So you see it really is a safety issue as well. THAT is how the leaders should have lobbied in the past to get it changed.
@Beth for County Chairman: Thank you for the vote of confidence. I suppose I DO have the abilties to "make things happen," but I don't have the "ideas." Those would come from all of US, the taxpayers............
Besides, The "Good ole Boys" wouldn't know what hit 'em! LOL

#12 Beth for County Chairman 2012 on 08/14/11 at 10:49 AM [Reply]

Don't know if you are using your real name, but seriously, you should consider running for chairman.

The "good ole boys" will fight you all the way, but you have the ideas, and I suspect the ability to make good things happen to Winder.

#13 Beth for County Chairman 2012 on 08/14/11 at 05:32 PM [Reply]

I like you answer "...but I don't have the "ideas." Those would come from all of US..."

Shows you aren't an egotist

#14 Bill Summerour on 08/15/11 at 12:51 PM [Reply]

The old Granite Hotel would make a great place to start renovating downtown.Once the stucco is removed and all that granite shows up,especially the granite columns,this building would really stand out. We are the only town where over $200,000.00 of our money was spent for a historical building only to have to pay around $40,000.00,of our money, to have it buldozed by a short sighted Mayor,City Council & Laughable Downtown Developement Authority! If I had the money I would consider renovating it myself. Why not put a temporary roof on it and wait till the economy rebounds,then renovate this irreplaceable piece of our history.

#15 TickedOff on 08/16/11 at 03:28 PM [Reply]

Moving the government downtown brings thousands of citizens and shoppers back downtown? Are you serious? Where are they gonna shop, one of the thrift stores? As for resturants, theres not enough to support "thousands" of diners. Don't you think we need to be a little more realistic in our calculations? If government was so vital to downtown why'd we let Doug spend 52 million moving it?

#16 Allah Akbar on 08/16/11 at 03:57 PM [Reply]

Elect JP to the Downtown Development Authority. His knowledge and common-sense approach is needed.

#17 Good Morning Barrow County!!! on 08/16/11 at 08:44 PM [Reply]

It is 2011, not 1941. Wake up and smell the coffee. This county does not have the resources or the money to be making these sorts of idiotic choices. Do something productive with the money that we do have. Lets give incentives for businesses to invest in this county. More business = more taxes = more revenue. My idea... Give incentives to build a mall or something to that effect. Think of all the retail business that would spawn around it. Put it by 316. Look at Target... Think of the businesses that have been spawning there. I rest my case. Need an example? Mall of Georgia, Town Center mall. Think of what those malls have done to helped their areas grow.

#17.1 Dizz Knee on 08/16/11 at 09:40 PM [Reply]

Mall? Mall! This is Barrow -- not Gwinnett. (And even in mighty Gwinnett, their original mall, Gwinnett Place, is a morgue.) It's taken Winder 30 years just to get a crumby movie theater. So, don't ask for Disney to relocate. Try to stay in the real world. You know, hope for an I.H.O.P. to compete with Waffle House.

#17.2 CitizenK on 08/17/11 at 06:00 AM [Reply]

An outlet mall similar to Commerce or Dalton just might work.

#18 Allah Akbar on 08/17/11 at 06:20 AM [Reply]

If the county government relocates back to downtown I'll pledge to build a Chipotles in the downtown area.

#18.1 Good Ole Boy on 08/17/11 at 03:14 PM [Reply]

Build a Chipotles. With what????? Your Mouth!!!!!! We wont let you even if your mouth could get you financing.

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Downtown Winder may get huge shot in the arm; plan under way for it to ...

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Downtown Winder may get huge shot in the arm; plan under way for it to become center of county government

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