Last in/first out concept not used with teacher lottery

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Monday, May 23. 2011

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School system contracts in Barrow County were due back today and six teachers in the Apalachee cluster of the Barrow County school system will be leaving the schools where they taught last year, but will stay within the system.

A lottery was conducted Monday morning at Yargo and Bramlett elementary schools to balance out teacher ratios due to rezoning and resigning/retiring teachers, according to Barrow County school Superintendent Wanda Creel.

Certain schools were slated to reduce teachers and other schools were slated to gain teachers based on pupil-teacher ratio, said Creel.

Earlier this year, teachers were asked to sign a letter of intent stating whether they would resign or retire before contracts were issued on May 12. The data helped determine if a school was slated to lose teachers based on pupil teacher ratio.

YES had four teachers move: Two teachers in grades Kindergarten through 2, one teacher in grades 3-5 and one Special Education teacher. BES had two teachers move.

On Friday, both schools were notified that the lottery would take place on Monday.

“We thought we were being considerate on Friday,” said Creel.

But an online comment posted on the Barrow Journal asks if “last in/first out” should have taken place, the concept that any first-year teacher or non-veteran teacher should be removed before a teacher with tenure.

Creel debunked that plan by suggesting that schools stand to suffer by the possibility of taking away the teachers specifically hired to meet the needs of a school.

“This way, everyone went in with equal opportunity,” said Creel. “There was an equitable distribution of our teachers. Everyone has a job. Nothing has been reduced. Based on the allotments, in our most fair way possible, we had to select teachers.”

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#1 Fortitude on 05/23/11 at 04:34 PM [Reply]

Im sorry, but you work for the COUNTY, not the school, you are placed where needed. Now, if a teacher is picked and another teacher request the transfer, then it should be handled that way. This "tenure" crap with teachers is for the birds, some of you "tenured" teachers are just there for the money and need to be hired and fired at will just like any other job in this state, now, enjoy your two months off for summer and be thankful to have a job with benefits

#1.1 gagirl36 on 05/23/11 at 10:28 PM [Reply]

How much do you think teachers make? Do you realize that the county only contributes about $30 a month for health benefits that are second rate. Teachers are responsible for the majority of their premiums. Those benefits do not include dental, and barely covers vision. As for two months off, many teachers continue to work during the summer, continue their education, etc. There are many hours that are worked and they are not compensated. Many other jobs in this state that hire and fire also give severance packages. Teachers have no collective bargaining in Georgia, so ultimately there is no tenure. I think you need to educate yourself a little more before commenting.

#1.1.1 health care on 05/25/11 at 05:42 PM [Reply]

Second rate health care? You are giving more credit than is due. I have personally suffered as a result of the "second rate" health care. It is by far the worst I've seen in my entire adult life. However, we have no choice in the matter. Oh, yeah there are choices just like if you had to eat dog poop or cat poop which would you eat (HMO or PPO). Barrow will continue to lose good teachers because of the way they and their families are being treated. Pizza Hut has better benefits and before you say it, I already have an application in.

#1.2 underappreciated on 05/24/11 at 09:15 AM [Reply]

Just there for the money? Are you serious? As a teacher with a Masters degree, I do not make as much as a person in another profession with the same level as education. But I choose to stay in teaching because I love what I do and I love my students. I agree with the previous commenter who said that Barrow County does not pay very much of our benefit premiums at all anymore.

And for the comments I hear over and over about teachers having too much time off in the summer... do you all not understand that we do not get paid for this time off? This is completely unpaid time. Many teachers get summer jobs or tutoring positions in order to compensate for this time being unpaid.

#2 Keep the Best on 05/24/11 at 10:38 AM [Reply]

They are right, teachers are underpaid for what is expected but so are police officers, fire fighters, and any number of other service based jobs. Our best teachers are there because they have a passion for our students. The best way to appreciate these teachers is to hire, fire or lay off teachers based on their performance which should include more than mere test scores. Teachers that have had multiple complaints, have broken rules, laws or guidelines or just failed their students or their school should be the first to go no matter how long they have been with the school system. This is how we protect and save our BEST teachers and provide the greatest education for our children. Why would anyone expect less?

#2.1 WHAT WHAT WHAT??? on 05/24/11 at 11:56 AM [Reply]

Teachers are underpaid? This has got to be the most ridiculous comment of the YEAR!

You must be a teacher!

Teachers in Barrow rake in FAT salary, and for what? A substandard education system! The idea of TENURE is ridiculous, teachers should be hired and fired based on merit.

#2.1.1 anon. on 05/24/11 at 04:59 PM [Reply]

Wow, you must make very little in your job to consider what teachers make as a FAT salary.

#3 Allan on 05/24/11 at 12:09 PM [Reply]

Names were drawn to decide this. My Goodness!!! While this gives everyone an equal chance, how would this show fairness to employees who have been working for this county longer. If they all have good employee evaluations, that must count for something. I would question the legality of this and wonder if Dr. Creel is opening this county up to yet another lawsuit against our Education Department. It really is time to determine if our county educational system is being administered in the best possible way. Maybe it's time for a change again.

#3.1 Nunya Business on 05/29/11 at 08:56 AM [Reply]

Dear Dr. Wanda Creel,
You have no idea the damage that your lottery system has done to Barrow County Schools. There are problems within the schools that would have been solved had you used the last in, first out system. Of course, you are unaware of these problems and they will not be aired here but if you will investigate, you will discover that employing the last in, first out method rather than the arbitrary lottery system would have done the school system a great service and saved us from potential sexual harassment law suits in the future. Of course, this does imply that those hired last year need to be scrutinized and they should.

#4 Keep the Best on 05/24/11 at 02:23 PM [Reply]

Yes, WHAT WHAT WHAT....GOOD teachers are underpaid for what they do. No, I am not a teacher nor am I married to one. And, as I said,I too believe they should be hired or fired based on performance (merit). The "lottery" that was conducted was not the most professional way to make tough decisions and I wonder how the heck Dr. Creel would have handled the situation had someone needed to be laid off. Ultimately, we can not put all the blame for our educational issues on our teachers and administrators alone. Parents have to step up, children have to take the initiative, teachers have to teach for the love of teaching first and foremost and administators have to develop a system that expects excellence from all....themselves especially. Until all those planets line up, we will forever be talking about how our educational system is lacking.

#5 DuWayne R. Anderson on 05/24/11 at 02:58 PM [Reply]

Our Barrow County Teachers work very hard for the salaries and benefits they earn. They also spend thousands of dollars in Educational costs to meet the State Board of Education standards, so that they can teach our kids. We are blessed to have them.
DuWayne

#6 Sad parent on 05/24/11 at 03:32 PM [Reply]

The process to draw names from a lottery of all teachers at a school was a very unprofessional way to achieve what needed to be done. How would you like to have worked at the same place for 25 plus years only to find out you may have to start all over at a new school possibly in a new position. Our teachers are under paid compared to neighboring counties and only stay for the love of the students and their love for their school. Dr. Creel must have never experienced this feeling while building her resume. I for one believe her performance should be review. I can only imagine how these teachers must feel. I understand that they were notified while many were attending graduation ceremonies for students they taught. This joyous occasion must have turned into a sad and scary feeling.

#6.1 anon on 05/24/11 at 05:02 PM [Reply]

Dr. Creel has never been a classroom teacher. She taught private music lessons and was a choral director for a short time, but have never been a classroom teacher. I think that she has a really hard time placing herself in a teacher's shoes when she makes these decisions because she's never really been one.

#7 Fortitude on 05/24/11 at 07:33 PM [Reply]

Well, if ya'll do not like the salaries/benefits you have, it is your right to move on to greener pastures. I know teaching is hard, I would not last as one as I have no patience with unruly students. However, when I see printed material that shows how much teachers make (dont forget the fall/spring breaks etc)and how much is possible to make with advancement it evens out. Sure teachers and police are underpaid for what they do, but to hear moaning about leaving a school, maybe you all should ask Dr. Creel for voluntary transfers to the schools in need.

#7.1 gagirl36 on 05/24/11 at 10:17 PM [Reply]

Teachers do not get paid for the breaks. They are contracted usually for 190 days and they take that salary and split it into 12 paychecks. They do not get paid for holidays, etc. Have you looked at what it costs lately to obtain higher degrees? What happened was that an email was sent out after school hours on Friday telling the faculty of 2 schools that if they did not receive volunteers that the lottery would occur. Most teachers do not go home on Friday evening and wait by a computer to see if they are going to receive a work related email. And as someone else stated, many of those teachers were attending the graduations Friday night. Then without all teachers being adequately informed, Creel made the decision to go ahead with the lottery. As far as teacher salaries and benefits go they are fine if they are left alone. But premiums have increased 100% + in the past five years along with out of pocket costs, and what you are reading does not include subtracting from teacher salaries the furlough days that have been implemented. Nor does it reflect the amount of students that do not show up to school with adequate supplies that teachers end up purchasing out of their own pockets, as well as meals for students, and other money handed out because the parents can't seem to come up with it.

#7.1.1 Fortitude on 05/25/11 at 08:48 AM [Reply]

I have spent time in a classroom as a mentor and when I see 'student teachers" doing all the work for the teacher while she plays Angry Birds on her cell phone, it makes me have little sympathy for someone who comlains about it.
I have family that teaches in a county next to ours and understand that it is a tough job with little thanks. However, when you only work really 9mos and a few day's a year, your pay is adjusted for that.
If Dr. Creel did that, why dont the teachers stand up and voice their opinions ? as far as not having supplies, dont buy the items and let the parents know why !

#7.1.1.1 Anonymous on 05/25/11 at 09:24 AM [Reply]

One can't help but wonder - Fortitude - are you truly this mad at teachers or do you just get your kicks getting teacher supporters fired up?
Maybe you've felt shortchanged in your own educational experience. There must be some reasoning behind your disgust with teachers. There likely are teachers out there in need of a change in profession. Maybe they aren't up to the challenge. Just because there is one rotten apple on the tree doesn't mean they all are.

#7.1.1.1.1 Fortitude on 05/25/11 at 05:36 PM [Reply]

I do not have a disgust for teachers, I think they chose a tough job and knew what they were getting into before hand. However, the majority of the teachers I have met in this system from church and mentoring, seem to be disgusted, burnt out and could careless. That is their bed, they need to either fix it or leave it messed up, either way, it is a "cush" gig and pretty much job security.
What I do not like is the constant whinning that goes on. Im sorry your pay/benefits have been reduced, that is something no one wants. But since you work for a county government, you should be placed where needed. I worked for the state when I graduated college, guess what, I was told that I would have to move from this area to Moultrie if I wanted to keep my job because another state employee had senority on me and wanted this area, that is what happens in government work.
If teachers dont like the process, go on strike and force your employeer to change things or leave, but dont whine about a job where you work mon-fri, weekends, holidays, summers, fall/spring breaks off.

#7.1.1.1.1.1 Ms. Teacher on 05/25/11 at 06:16 PM [Reply]

How can you call teaching a "tough job" and a "cush gig" in the same paragraph?

#7.1.1.2 old timer on 05/29/11 at 11:16 AM [Reply]

I would like to comment regarding supplies. Some of the best teachers I knew did not depend on supplies. Ever heard of oral exams ? Man, we could spit those multiplication answers out fast as the teacher could talk. same thing with spelling tests. Supplies are good, but what counts is the end result. are students really learning anything with these cutsey crafts made at school? And, yes I have seen what my grandchildren bring home using these supplies. ridiculous. And while Im spilling my gut, let me say the computer labs should go too. Most kids now know the computer before going into first grade. Put the cost of computers into paying off the county debt. you cant have it all, so which is more important, a bus to get to school on, or a classroom of students playing games on the computer. Oh, I know I'll get objections to this. But, let me ask you, how many of you have received email jokes from county employees using the schools computer system? Ive seen plenty of this, and some of the emails plenty raunchy. Let me ask, who is minding the classroom, a parapro ??? We can argue until doomsday, but the fact is there is plenty of fat and "extras" that can and needs to be cut out.

#7.1.1.2.1 Ms. Teacher on 05/29/11 at 12:58 PM [Reply]

Part of the curriculum for young children involves learning how to properly use scissors and glue... that can only be practiced with actual cutting and gluing using real scissors and real glue and real paper. Not everything can be taught orally.

And what about writing? You can't teach a child to write without paper and pencils.

#7.1.1.2.1.1 old timer on 05/29/11 at 01:55 PM [Reply]

Sorry Ms Teacher, your reply merely solidifies my comments. OBVIOUSLY, writing can not be done orally, anyone should know that. I did not say everything could be done orally. But what can be...should be. This builds confidence in the child. As for the learning to use scissors and glue. Mercy, wouldnt you think parents or maybe play school or kindergarten would have taught these basic skills to the students ?? Lets have a count here, how many of you readers have grade school children who doesnt know how to use scissors or to paste/glue ? So, we are paying teachers these big salaries to teach students what anyone can learn on their own ?? School is not a babysitting service, we need to send our kids there for one purpose, which is to learn. From the looks of it, that is not being done, not going by the students grades. We need good teachers who know how to teach, and we need to pay them what they are worth, whether that is a low or a high salary.

#7.1.1.2.1.1.1 Ms. Teacher on 05/29/11 at 02:39 PM [Reply]

Well, I am a Kindergarten teacher and I can tell you that I have kids come into my room every year who have hardly, if ever, used a pair of scissors. They have not spent time exploring basic materials like crayons, paint, glue, etc... so I have to give them that opportunity in my classroom. Some kids enter my classroom and it is their first time in any kind of classroom ever. Not every child can learn these kinds of things on their own.

And I do agree that oral learning should take place in every classroom. But, children learn best in different ways and not all children are verbal/linguistic learners, so they should not be expected to learn that way. Good teachers taps into every child's learning style and strength.

#7.1.1.2.1.1.2 BoyEvil on 05/29/11 at 06:19 PM [Reply]

Wow. So your old timer brain obviously can't keep up with a conversation. So allow me, if you're not busy furiously chugging Ensure and shaking your fist at kids on your lawn, to remind you of what you did say. "Some of the best teachers I knew did not depend on supplies." This, aside from being a sign of the late onset of Alzheimer's, makes it clear to me that you are trying compare the schools teachers of today to the glitter, glue, and fist fighting saber tooth tigers for your share of mammoth, to the facilities and under appreciated teachers of today, most of whom have a bare minimum of a masters degree. I do appreciate it that you consider having made it through with amazing capability to memorize multiplication tables and completely free of polio, Students of today are expected to know that by the end of third grade alone.

Also, as for the other glaringly ignorant suggestion you offered. Yes I completely agree that we spend far too much money teaching kids to use computers. Though they seem to be a popular fad now, I'm sure that will die off and we wont be hearing much more about this silly intra-net. Clearly this would be money better spent forcing out that darned free thought civil liberty that these women keep women keep pestering us about.

Now if we're all finished here I'm almost positive there's a Matlock Marathon on, and I'd be truly remiss if I kept you from it

#7.1.1.2.1.1.2.1 old timer on 05/30/11 at 09:29 PM [Reply]

what an idiotic response.

#7.1.1.2.1.1.2.1.1 BoyEvil on 05/31/11 at 08:25 PM [Reply]

Ouch, wicked burn

#7.2 sheryl on 05/27/11 at 07:51 PM [Reply]

Some did ask to be moved to said schools,even volunteered to take a teacher's place,that had been experiencing sorrow in her life,death of a child and parents illness.DR.Creel ,said no,i am going ny the lottery

#7.2.1 anon on 05/27/11 at 08:13 PM [Reply]

Another reason why the lottery was a bad idea... it was never needed before and it isn't needed now.

#8 Bothered on 05/25/11 at 07:29 AM [Reply]

Fortitude – You really should spend a day in a classroom. Even just to volunteer with no obligations other than watching. What greener pastures are you suggesting teachers move to? Obviously you read the news. The economy is suffering, jobs are difficult to find, and budgets get slashed left and right. Where exactly are they supposed to take their teaching certificates to? If you recall from the paper the biggest salary makers are in the minority and do you know that after 20 years you have no more steps or opportunities for advancement? Those that do get additional degrees pay on those loans for years. Quite a few teachers I know that have retired are working to stay afloat and many still teaching have additional jobs to stay afloat. Do you consider that some teachers are single parents? Teachers make adequate salaries but ARE being cut, are constantly being criticized because they cannot make unmotivated children reach the huge standards, and spend those supposedly huge salaries on treats, supplies, and crafts for other people’s children! In the meantime, the cost of living keeps rising while their salaries are falling. Expectations (and sometimes unrealistic expectations) of teachers and negative opinions of teachers are also rising. Can you blame a teacher for being overwhelmed? Teachers are going on at least three years of furloughs AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME ARE NOT PAID DURING BREAKS!!! Those with strong opinions should really know more about what they speak of.

#9 Anonymous on 05/25/11 at 08:23 AM [Reply]

I have been reading these post and I read the post when this paper published the salaries of BOE Employees. I see people keep using the phrase underpaid teachers. Here is a question, if teachers are underpaid what is the correct level of pay? Is 86K correct for 4th grade math? Don't say underpaid, give a number. Over 400 BOE salries were over 50k a year. This is above the median income of Georgia and Barrow county. Then you say underpaid compared to other counties such as Gwinnett. I looked at some salaries at random there. They seem to be the same. Then I have other questions. Why do so many teachers live outside of Barrow County? I do beleive that if you draw a county pay the least you can do is live in the county. Underpaid is an easy catchall phrase.

#9.1 gagirl36 on 05/25/11 at 03:52 PM [Reply]

Anonymous, what you are not taking into consideration is the local supplement that each county offers to try to attract and keep teachers. There is a substantial difference between Gwinnett and Barrow. If you look at base pay, it's the same across the state. You can access that info at the state doe website. You have to look county by county to see what the supplements are. They are based on education and years of experience. Barrow has frozen theirs so no one will get an increase right now.
As far as teachers not living in Barrow, after reading comments like people post around here, would you want to be a teacher and live here?

#9.1.1 Anonymous on 05/25/11 at 04:22 PM [Reply]

Gagirl, I looked at actual salaries of random people so there is no way of knowing all the details. My point is what should the pay be then? Give a number? The private sector when it creates a job decides what value that job is to them. They assign it a min, mid and max number. Where you fall in there is dependent upon experience and your value of knowlege pertinent to the job. However that job will never be worth more than a certain amount to the employer. No one has answered the question. You did not. What is the dollar amount? Regardless of the people on here I do firmly hold that if you draw a salary from a county, you need to live in the county. I do not think that is asking to much.

#9.1.1.1 gagirl on 05/25/11 at 09:16 PM [Reply]

Since people seem to think teachers are glorified babysitters, let see. The average cost for childcare is $100 per week per child. Let's do the low end class size for an elementary school teacher, about 20 kids. That's $2000 a week for 36 weeks. The amount teachers deserve is not anywhere near what they get. You talk about other jobs with specified salaries, etc. Most of those people at least receive a cost of living raise each year, teachers have no such promise.

#9.1.1.1.1 Anonymous on 05/26/11 at 06:43 AM [Reply]

I hate to break it to you but in the private sector you are not gauranteed a cost of living increase every year. In case you have not been reading the news private sector incomes as a group have decreased. In the private sector it is tied to results. You cannot go out and get another certification or degree and be guaranteed more money. So your answer is that teachers should make 72k a year.Fine I can live with that, Then all those making more than that need to take a cut. The ones making less get a raise.

#9.1.1.1.1.1 Gwinnett Teacher on 05/28/11 at 01:37 PM [Reply]

72K a year? Yes please! I have been teaching for 10 years and make 46K a year. I make just enough to pay my mortgage, utilities, car payment, and day care. Am I complaining? No, because I absolutely LOVE my job and think I am VERY good at it.

#9.2 Anon on 05/25/11 at 05:12 PM [Reply]

Do the people making the median income have a graduate degree? A lot of teachers in the county have a Masters or Specialist degree, and many are National Board certified. The median income in Barrow County might be 50K, but I would wager to say that a small number of the working class have higher degrees.

#10 Annie Omus on 05/25/11 at 09:24 AM [Reply]

I highly disagree with the continuous rampage that teachers pay so much out of pocket for school supplies for the kids. Teachers send the kids to the office for punishment for failure to have the required materials for their class. Take a look at a conduct referral for verification of this.

#10.1 gagirl36 on 05/25/11 at 03:58 PM [Reply]

Would you like to see receipts?? And I do not know any teacher that would send their students to the office for not bringing materials to class. I am talking about basics: pen/pencil, paper, notebook. For constantly being irresponsible because they can't seem to get there books out of their lockers and bring them as they should,there has to be some kind of consequence. Just because it is listed on a referral doesn't mean that it's checked.

#10.1.1 old timer on 05/29/11 at 02:13 PM [Reply]

The statement "constantly being irresponsible because they leave their material (books, paper, etc) in their lockers. Simple solution here. Have the principal march the kid to his locker to fetch the needed things.Then a little discipline enforced should do it. Kids tend to get away with what they are allowed to. and if you are supplying materials instead of simply finding a solution, then you should have to buy the supplies yourself. its your fault the kid is getting away with it. You are abetting him in this behavior. definitely taxpayers shouldnt have to hear about this. quit grumbling, solve the problem, and earn your salary.

#10.2 anon on 05/25/11 at 04:00 PM [Reply]

No elementary teacher I know has ever written a child up because his/her parents failed to purchase school supplies.

#11 Jo Jo on 05/25/11 at 05:29 PM [Reply]

Come on Mr/Ms teacher. Do you think you are the only people who are trapped in there jobs? You have a job and your job has deep pockets … the tax payer’s pockets. Do you know how many private jobs could be saved if they could put their hands in the tax payers pockets. Again before being hired, you knew what the job paid and what the benefits were. You knew when you went to college what the job paid. You made the choice to be a teacher … not the tax payers. From the grades we see coming out of WBHS we are not getting our money’s worth. It doesn’t matter if you got a $20k raise the grades would STILL BE BAD. Get the grades up and the tax payers will back you to the hilt on your salaries and benefits. I am sorry you are trapped but there are millions in the same boat. People go to work each day to a job that they do not have everything they need to do that job either. It is the times … and remember a past president “It is the economy stupid”.

#11.1 Ms. Teacher on 05/25/11 at 06:01 PM [Reply]

The grades will go up when a lot of the parents start taking more of an interest in their child's education and upbringing.

#11.2 gagirl36 on 05/25/11 at 09:35 PM [Reply]

Have you looked at reasons for student failures other than blaming the teachers? Have you been in a classroom lately? Many students have an abundance of issues and distractions from what is going on at home that they cannot even focus when they get there. Mom or dad is in jail, or they just got out. Have you taken a look at the drug use factor here in Barrow County? Marijuana is everywhere. Prescription pills are everywhere. There are many students that are just plain apathetic. Many students want to be entertained and to do so, to make education entertaining for them, requires a 21st Century classroom with all the latest technology and gadgets they can use. Have you visited a classroom lately? Many teachers are lucky to have an overhead projector, and I don't mean LCD. Have you considered attendance? Are teachers supposed to drive to the students homes to pick them up because mom and dad just can't seem to make them go to school? Have you considered the teen pregnancy rate in Barrow County? Are parents not teaching their kids there are other things to do? Teachers in Barrow County are doing great and incredible things to contribute to the success of all students, but if you can't get the students and the parents to buy in..you can forget it. Oh, and WBHS had 100+ honor graduates on Friday night. That's a little better than 1 in 4.

#11.3 Melissa on 05/26/11 at 07:37 AM [Reply]

In response to "you knew when you went to college what the job paid"....well, many teachers went to college and were hired as a teacher way before the recession hit and states starting enforcing furloughs to make cuts to save a dollar for thenselves, so, NO, teachers DID NOT know what they were getting into when they were hired more than 10,20,30 years ago. Also, "you see what kind of grades the kids bring home" is not an assessment as to what the teachers are teaching, it is an assessment of unmotivated children as well as parents not taking the initiative to step up and know what their child should be learning and putting into their work at school. In high school, a child gets out of it what they put into it. If parents put an emphasise on school like they do when they make sure they upgrade their child's iphone, the grades they see at report card time wouldn't be so bad.

#11.3.1 r on 05/26/11 at 06:17 PM [Reply]

All I see and read is crying. Move on. Cut and dry. There is someone wanting your job and willing to work those hours for your pay. With millions unemployed there are teachers everywhere wanting work.

#11.3.1.1 old timer on 05/29/11 at 02:56 PM [Reply]

I agree. theres people right here in Barrow county who are actively looking for teaching positions. They would gladly fill any position of whoever decides to give their notice. Anyone ever stop and think about why so many college students are still going into the education field. Think about it.

#12 Jo Jo on 05/25/11 at 06:29 PM [Reply]

That's what every teacher has used for an excuse when they are losing the argument over why the grades aren't better. That one is old and worn out. It is like the "sky is falling". Please come up with a new one. Still tomorrow ... go to work ... or quit!! The world is a harh place and no one promised you a rose garden.

#12.1 Ms. Teacher on 05/25/11 at 06:46 PM [Reply]

I don't have to go to work tomorrow... I have my cushy TWO MONTHS OFF.

#12.1.1 Jo Jo on 05/25/11 at 06:51 PM [Reply]

Then shut up and sleep in. Maybe Pizza Hut will call YOU next week sometime. I'll pray for you.

#12.1.1.1 Ms. Teacher on 05/25/11 at 07:31 PM [Reply]

Classy.

#12.1.1.1.1 Jo Jo on 05/25/11 at 07:51 PM [Reply]

I thought so.

#12.2 health care on 05/25/11 at 09:35 PM [Reply]

Why don't you try? Why don't you teach and show us all how it's done? Why don't you live with all the BS the teachers do including the sorry health care. In other words shut your mouth unless you do it. I'm tired of all these people with all the answers yet none of them have any experience. And learn the difference between a reason and an excuse.

#12.2.1 Donnie on 05/26/11 at 06:42 PM [Reply]

We are tired of hearing you cry about how hard you job is. QUIT FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME!!!! Get a pair of roller skates and work at the local fast food place ... then you probably would hug each kid in your class.

#13 WatchfulEyesIn Barrow on 05/26/11 at 12:08 AM [Reply]

You teachers complain that you work overtime with no extra pay. What, you actually think the rest of the real working world doesn't? Those who do, do. Those who can't, teach.

#13.1 anon on 05/26/11 at 08:20 AM [Reply]

" Those who do, do. Those who can't, teach"

Oh wow, genius... where did you come up with that quote? I've never heard that before!

#13.1.1 r on 05/26/11 at 04:30 PM [Reply]

If you have not heard this remark (" Those who do, do. Those who can't, teach")... you must have lived a shelter life over the last 25 years. This is a old remark. BUT STILL TRUE!!!

#13.1.1.1 anon on 05/26/11 at 05:16 PM [Reply]

It's called sarcasm. If you haven't heard of THAT, then you must be the one living a sheltered life.

#13.1.1.1.1 r on 05/26/11 at 06:10 PM [Reply]

Call it what you want Ms Educated. It still is true!!! Most people with any abilities can do the teachers job. Most want because of the smart mouthed kids. But the job can't be as hard as engineering or electrical or areospace.

#13.1.2 old timer on 05/29/11 at 05:59 PM [Reply]

What I have noticed most about this blog is the smart mouthed sarcasm from a lot of teachers mouths. I get the feeling they consider the average tax paying citizen as inferior to them. In my day it was true that teachers were respected. Im seeing a different side of that now.

#13.2 health care on 05/26/11 at 06:10 PM [Reply]

Those who can't teach...
Really? How do you think Mr. Rocket scientist learned his trade? How does a doctor become a doctor? Ever heard of Emory don't go there for treatment, their doctors are teachers. Just because it's a saying doesn't make it true. World's flat huh?

Jojo,
I was in avionics in the Navy. I'd much rather deal with a box of metal than unruly children. But I understand where you're coming from. You don't have experience teaching kids and until you do you have no say in the matter. Try it then get back with us.

#13.2.1 Jo Jo on 05/26/11 at 06:24 PM [Reply]

My god if some of the teachers I know can do the job ... anybody can do it? Having kids read from a book. Gee that takes a lots of training. Go home and read some more. Lets see maybe a monkey can't ... but the local drug dealer probably can.

#13.2.2 Jo Jo on 05/26/11 at 06:26 PM [Reply]

Yeah, try designing a wing for the newest Air Force Fighter Jet. Unruly kids ... what a job.

#14 informed on 05/26/11 at 08:43 AM [Reply]

The lottery was a poor leadership decision. It lowered teacher morale by putting dozens of in jeopardy when only a few would be affected.

While I think she has done a good job and this incident is just a blip, it provides an opportunity to see how she responds to criticism and thus provide some indication of what lies down the road with her.

Perhaps she will show the ability to learn from mistakes.

#15 I was there for the lottery drawing on 05/26/11 at 04:20 PM [Reply]

There were not enough volunteers to change schools therefore the lottery had to take place. A few teachers in our school requested to "witness the drawing" to make sure it was fair. Dr. Creel has worked to be transparent and fair. I applaud her! She has made some tough calls that needed making. Drawing those names was not an easy task for her.
Employees of Barrow County Schools should be grateful for a leader who's goal is to preserve jobs of hard-working teachers during these poor economic times. All of these teachers still have a job!!! It just may not be in the school they prefer.
Barrow teachers need to look at surrounding counties who are letting go hundreds of teachers who are now on the unemployment line. If they think they are being treated unfairly, then why don't they quit and try to find a job in another school system. Good luck with that! There are hundreds of teachers who would love to have their vacant Barrow County School jobs!!!

#15.1 anonymous on 05/26/11 at 05:21 PM [Reply]

Teachers have been moving from school to school for years without the need for a lottery. I think that each principal should be able to keep the authority in his/her school to determine who will be moved. A teacher who has put in many years of service in a school has a vested interest there and shouldn't have to move over a beginning teacher who has been there a year. Seniority is an important factor in decision-making in most other professions, so it should stay that way in education as well.

#16 Jo Jo on 05/26/11 at 04:26 PM [Reply]

Look, your teaching job is no harder than anybody elses. I bet $5k I can learn and do your job quicker that you can learn and do mine. BTW I am an Aircraft Avionics Engineer. Just come try my job and see what you might learn to do girlfriend. Dealing with problem kids are not harder than problems others face in their jobs each day. You do not corner the market on hard jobs. You are not the only career field that is hard to do. I have the same below options that you have.

You have two options:
#1 - Go to work and do what you can and except what you get paid and the benefits you get.

#2 - Leave the teaching job and do something else.

There are only two options. Either do your job or quit your job. No in-betweens.

#16.1 Bobby Jo on 05/26/11 at 04:44 PM [Reply]

Jo Jo I agree with you. When school starts back in the fall there will be no teachers that does not know what the job pays and what benefits they will get. Now each and everyone of these teachers has a choice to make while discussing it with their family ... either except the salary and benefits or move on. I don't want to hear any teacher belly ache about their jobs when they have an option to get out.

#16.2 girlfriend on 05/27/11 at 03:12 PM [Reply]

And I suppose you taught yourself everything you need to know to do your job.

#16.2.1 Jo Jo on 05/27/11 at 03:56 PM [Reply]

What I am able to do was not taught to me by a Barrow Co High School Teacher. I got a real education ... GT and VT!!!

#16.3 Anonymous on 05/27/11 at 06:48 PM [Reply]

accept not except...
We taught it....you didn't retain it....that's our fault?
No education is not the only difficult job in the world but educators do seem to get much more flack that many other jobs. Six hours a day is all we have excluding breaks. Who is then accountable for the other 18 hours a day?

#17 heresatipforyou on 05/26/11 at 05:47 PM [Reply]

This is definitely a HOT topic...
Yes... I am a teacher in Barrow County and of course have an opinion as well. Pulling names from a bowl - probably not the most professional way of doing it, BUT... had it been done with principals choosing who leaves a school would probably not have been done professionally either if they were told they needed to choose teachers to transfer without any limitations as to who is chosen. They most likely would not 'give away' their BEST teachers, they would get rid of those who lack in performance and do enough to barely get by or those who have negative attitudes and often 'stir the pot.' They would be sending their 'slugs' for another principal to go through the proper steps to weed them out totally. I think it has been said many times teachers are paid based on a contract of 190 days they work, that doesn't include holidays and breaks. At this moment teachers are considered 'unemployed' but because counties pay teachers over the course of 12 months we can not collect unemployment during the winter and summer breaks. And I am just going to add, our first paycheck for the school year is not until the last day of September.... which means we have worked 2 months before we are paid for our services - thankfully for new teachers - Barrow County pays 1st year teachers 13 months and they are given a check at the end of August.

To put all teachers in the category of not caring about what they do is not fair. I am sure every school has teachers who do as little as possible to get by, I know mine does and they are handled accordingly. There is a far greater number of teachers who go above and beyond for the sake of their students and because that is what they love to do. I think when the 2010-2011 test scores are released to the public for Barrow County it will be evident that the majority of teachers are doing what they think is best for students and getting through to them.

We do have a lot of support from the community to help with morale, but it is often that small tidbit of negativity that brings us down. Support not only the teachers, but the youth within the schools - they are the ones who are ultimately making the choice to succeed!

To those teachers who will be in new schools... THEY WILL BE FINE! Once the initial shock of moving after being in the same place for many years subsides and they are welcomed into their new school they will still do all they can to help the students of Barrow County succeed!

#18 Steve on 05/26/11 at 06:59 PM [Reply]

It is pretty bad when you cry about your county job that about 90% of the people that reads this blog pays for. Get your hands out of our pockets ... or just do what we pay you to do.

#18.1 Anonymous on 05/27/11 at 06:54 PM [Reply]

Hey Steve...many teachers who work here also live in Barrow county. We pay taxes too. Just FYI. We are not solely digging our hands in your pockets. We are digging in our own too...again like we do throughout the year to have needed materials for our classrooms as well as help pay our own salaries. Just saying.

#19 Mad tax payer on 05/26/11 at 07:13 PM [Reply]

I am furious that you teachers have the gall to get on this site and complain and cry how your jobs are so hard and how bad you have been treated. We are the tax payers that HAVE to pay your salaries. We don’t have a choice we are mandated by law to pay your salaries. You have a choice … quit. It is just a bad for us to hear you complain about your job after I have gone to my job day after day to make the money to have the county take it away in property taxes and give it to you ungrateful people. Teachers in this blog have said how the negativity gets to you all … well you complaining hurts us too!! I would rather not have to pay you but I do. Give us some credit also.

#19.1 anonymous on 05/26/11 at 09:31 PM [Reply]

Just so you know, your property taxes to the county actually only pay $200 a month of my salary.

#19.1.1 Victor on 05/27/11 at 09:18 PM [Reply]

That's $200 too much, given the fact that I have no children in the school system. I loath the fact that I am forced to pay taxes to educate someone elses kid.

#19.1.1.1 Anonymous on 05/28/11 at 06:27 PM [Reply]

Education promotes the common good of all. I loathe the fact that so many selfish people live in this world. I loathe the fact that so many wish to blame everyone else for the problems with our society. I LOATHE the fact that so many opinionated people (who need to utilize a dictionary)know little about education yet feel the need to voice ignorant and selfish opinions here. Maybe if we all worked better together and supported one another our world would be a happier place.

#19.1.1.1.1 b on 05/28/11 at 06:48 PM [Reply]

Loathe? Reading the Readers Digest again? Strong words form a person that lives in Barrow Co.

#19.2 Ms. Teacher on 05/26/11 at 09:33 PM [Reply]

Most teachers I know, myself included, don't really complain about the job being hard... it's more about teachers being made to feel like failures and feeling underappreciated. I love my job... I love my students and enjoy going to work to be with them every day. But, it is frustrating to hear so much negativity and ugliness being thrown at teachers, especially when some things are beyond our control.

#20 mister teacher on 05/27/11 at 04:16 PM [Reply]

Most of the folks writing here have made some relevant points and have managed to paint a pretty good picture of our corporate state of affairs in this county due to the economy.

I remember when I was in high school (back around the time of Moses)we all looked up to our teachers as leaders. They showed us what was necessary to begin our adult lives in the world. My hometown valued education. We were expected to go to college. Those who didn't, went to the regional vocational-technical high school to master a trade.

As a result, our graduation rates never (since the school opened in 1969) dipped below 96%. Everyone was expected to do their best; students, teachers, parents, and administrators-no exceptions. Teachers knew their pay wasn't much, but it is what they loved doing. Most took on 2nd and 3rd jobs to pay for the things that teaching didn't. And they were okay with that.

I possess multiple degrees and continue to learn how to teach even more every year. Why? For the money? No. It is because learning was instilled in me a long time ago and has never left me. I could do other things and receive more, but teaching allows me to help to encourage young minds in world that is growing more globally competitive and meaner and nastier each and every day. To motivate one student in a positive way is worth it all for me. Everyone who can, should do what they love. For me, that is teaching.

To the taxpayers of Barrow County, thank-you to those who choose to support our efforts to develop young minds into fine citizens. I think too often we look inward and not outward. When we see what we already have, we are truly a blessed people.

As a teacher and resident of this county, I want our tax money spent wisely. That means desiring that each citizen (whether or not you have a child in the schools) makes the effort to encourage our young people to learn to better themselves while in our schools. It saddens me to see so many give up or come to school unmotivated. So many opportunities exist today for every young person that will just try their best!

We are all going through difficult times. But, if we focus on the positives and work together the Barrow schools can be a positive catalyst for businesses to come to our county. Great businesses seek out great school systems! Let's all try to be just a little bit more charitable and positive. Then, perhaps some good things will come our way.

#20.1 Bobby Jo on 05/27/11 at 04:37 PM [Reply]

Sir I applaud you!! You have said in a very stirring manner what the others of us couldn’t. Now you are the teacher I do not mind my tax money paying for what you do. THANK YOU SIR FOR YOUR EFFORTS!!!

#20.2 Barrow Admin on 05/28/11 at 03:20 PM [Reply]

Sir, I also applaud your comment. Your even and level outlook on the caustic commentary above shows your passion for your job, and I agree with everything you said. As an Administrator in BCS, let me say that it is people like you who make this School System great. Thank you for what you do, each and every day.

#21 Anonymous on 05/27/11 at 04:20 PM [Reply]

Mad tax payer.... you do realize that there tons of people in the county who do not pay their taxes and if you could get those people to actually pay then our county would not be in the position it is in. So if you really are a mad tax payer then maybe instead of being mad at teachers you should be angry at all the people who are skipping on their taxes! Just a thought.

Oh and to the person who said students are sent to the office for not having school supplies, that is the biggest lie I have ever heard. RIDICULOUS!!!

#21.1 Mad tax payer on 05/27/11 at 04:41 PM [Reply]

Well miss smart britches ... I am furious with them too!! Move on girlfriend. Try and save yourself instead of telling us how to live.

#22 anonie mouse on 05/27/11 at 06:21 PM [Reply]

Jo Jo, take your prozac and chill. Life is too short to be so bitter and angry.

#22.1 Jo Jo on 05/27/11 at 06:47 PM [Reply]

Yeah I have watch you all over these blogs and you are nothing but a sturrer yourself. You have no better ideas than I or anybody else has. Your ideas is not smarter than anyone elses. Find someone else to pick on because I don't give a rip what you think!!! Your just another one of the Barrow County finest.

#22.1.1 Jack Legg on 05/27/11 at 08:27 PM [Reply]

The answer to our schools problems are to take ALL of the disciplinary problem students out of regular classrooms and bus them to one school in the county. All the other schools "rates of measure" would go up overnight.We would have a school system then that would be the envy of the other systems around us and we could attract better teachers in the process(not to say that all are bad now).
This one problem school would have poor marks all around but it would only be the one and not ALL as it is now.

#23 Anonymous on 05/28/11 at 07:52 AM [Reply]

Good Leaders make tough decisions!!!

If there weren't enough volunteers, then management needed to decide who would relocate and notify the teachers that they would be moving to new schools.

This was certainly the "Cowardly" way to take.

Between the temper tantrums I hear about, the playing favorites and the ongoing lack of sound leadership decisions, the Board Members really need to sit Dr. Creel down and counsel her on her performance.

It's unprofessional to say the least.

#23.1 anon on 05/28/11 at 12:27 PM [Reply]

Finally, a comment that makes sense!!

#24 dawgmom on 05/29/11 at 05:52 AM [Reply]

Let me say this___LOUDLY AND CLEARLY`YOUR LOYALTY AND TIME SPENT AT ANY EMPLOYMENT DOES NOT MATTER TO ANY EMPLOYER. IT USED TO BUT NOT ANYMORE-THESE DAYS WE ARE ALL JUST STATS TO SATISFY THE NUMBERS. JUST GO TO YOUR JOB, DO NO MORE OR NO LESS THAN IS NECESSARY, GRAB YOUR PAYCHECK WHEN IT IS GIVEN, AND GO HOME. FORGET THE PLACE AND BE HAPPY AWAY FROM THE JOB.
As for people who are always saying snide comments about Barrow Countians and our education-shut the crap up. For all I know you're from here and I happen to think this county can educate about as well as any county. Not that I think our children are being properly educated- but that really isn't the teachers' faults entirely. Some parents have the mentality that education is all at school but if parents do not involve themselves in their child's education, they're not doing their part to help their child.
Much of the crap going on (or better yet-NOT going on) in the schools is some of the parents' faults as well as the educators faults.
When Madelyn O'Hare decided to go against religion and the education system in the 1960's, she molded our education far beyond its previous boundaries. She took prayer out of the schools and the education system, all through the ranks, has gone to *()* in a hand basket ever since.
Teachers should band together and tell the feds to get out of their classrooms and let them teach these children HOW TO LEARN-instead of INDOCTRINATING our children. If educators really taught what is right to learn and not have to indoctrinate the children, our children would get educated instead of indoctrinated.
IF THE SOUTHERN BRANCH OF TEACHERS MARCHED FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT- LIKE THEIR NORTHERN COUNTERPARTS, THEY MIGHT GET SOME CHANGES MADE IN HOW, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT THEY TEACH OUR CHILDREN.

#25 Bob on 05/29/11 at 04:07 PM [Reply]

Just another chance to blame someone else but themselves. It must be the parents, it must be the school admin, it must be society. BULL CR@P. I believe the majority of the general public is not buying this anymore. Do away with tenure and the school system can get rid of the under performing teachers. Schools went down hill when tenure went into effect.

#25.1 anonymous on 05/29/11 at 04:42 PM [Reply]

All tenure means is that the school system must renew a teacher's contract year after year unless good cause to not renew can be shown. This means that a teacher with tenure is not "untouchable" and can lose his/her job for poor performance. All teachers are observed and evaluated by their administrator and if that administrator sees just cause to let a teacher go, it makes no difference whether or not the teacher has tenure.

#25.2 TESTING 123, TESTING 123 on 05/29/11 at 05:09 PM [Reply]

AT WBHS I know of a kid who can't spell Cat and who was just handed a diploma.This student also, cannot do simple math.25 + 10 =????????????????? She has no idea.
I know of other kids who didn't get a diploma because they failed the graduation test.They had good grades all through school, yet just couldn't get past that test.How is that fair? It's all about who you know............

#26 dawgmom on 05/29/11 at 06:33 PM [Reply]

What about the admins who need to be booted out? We, the public, need to wake up and demand our tax money to be better spent on REAL education=not indoctrination.
The teachers know what I'm talking about.
I AM TIRED OF MONEY BEING THROWN INTO THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, AND THE KIDS ARE GETTING NO MORE OF AN EDUCATION THAN THEY EVER WERE.
ALSO- CASE IN POINT- WHY DOESN'T THE ADMINISTRATORS-FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE PRINCIPALS OF THE SCHOOLS GIVE THEMSELVES A PAY CUT INSTEAD OF RAISES THAT THIS COUNTY CANNOT AFFORD.
ALSO SPREAD SOME OF THEIR WEALTH TO THE CUSTODIANS, CAFETERIA WORKERS, AND BUS DRIVERS?
These are the people who really need raises to just break even after paying the ridiculous amount that is paid each month for the insurance.

#27 Phil on 05/29/11 at 07:13 PM [Reply]

Tell them dawgmom!!! Notice how the BOE and BOC neither has taken a pay cut or having to take days off. That part looks real fishy to me. The little man always get the cuts. The head dog just keeps moving right along. But as Danny said he don't have to answer to anybody.

#28 Sam on 05/29/11 at 08:05 PM [Reply]

The teachers say it’s “not my fault. The BOE Administration says it’s “not my fault”. The parents say it’s “not my fault. OK, then it is “my fault”. I will take all the blame.

Now that we have someone to blame what do you do with me. How do we fix my problem? The teachers can’t do any more. The parents aren’t going to put more effort into their kids. The BOE is not going to take less or change things.

Looks like its going to be a stale mate. How do we break the stale mate? Throwing good money after bad money has not and will not fix the problem.

Alas the problem lies with the student. We can’t kick there rear ends. But I bet if you took their cell phones and other items from them while at school they will set up and take notice. It is like disciplining a kid. Take his toys away until they straighten up. Ok, take things away from them. Make them stay after school. AND FOR GOD SAKES DON’T CONTIUE NO KID LEFT BEHIND. What a mistake that has been. Remember they ARE still kids whether they think so or not.

What say you?

#29 Anon on 05/30/11 at 11:37 AM [Reply]

Just FYI. Barrow administrators have not had raises in a couple years and took more furlough days than teachers or bus drivers last year.
Please get your facts straight before ranting.

#29.1 anonymous on 05/30/11 at 05:17 PM [Reply]

They took more furlough days because they work more days throughout the year... it just makes sense.

#30 Sam on 05/30/11 at 02:05 PM [Reply]

As someone else on these blogs has called you "Sturrer". Seems to fit. You seem to know everything. Maybe we just need to call you and get the facts and how to handle whatever problem needs to be solved.

#31 Billy on 05/30/11 at 04:06 PM [Reply]

Who is this anon? Does anyone know? She must truly read palms or something. Anon, just leave your name and number on this blog where the county will know how to get in touch with you when problems arise. You must have the time to save us all here in Barrow Co. Please help us save ourselves from the wolves at the door.

#32 Frank on 06/01/11 at 04:57 PM [Reply]

Anon where are you? We need saving!!

#33 dawgmom on 06/18/11 at 07:54 AM [Reply]

Everyone wants to pass the buck, just like in the presidents' office, senate, and congress, just to name a few. But the buck stops here.
I read a post where someone said kids go to school with this and that worrying them so much they can't concentrate. Well, let me say this--- it has always been that way. In the earlier days kids worried about chores at home waiting for them, they worried about jobs outside the home, etc. Now all they worry about is how fast they can get to the computer and the GAME SYSTEM.. Our children don't know HOW TO LEARN information they are given and the parents (for the most part) don't either. Our society has spent the last 20 years trying to be "multicultural, TOLERANT OF THINGS THAT SHOULDN"T BE TOLERATED, and "going global". That crap has been shoved down our throats long enough and we need to just get on with teaching kids to learn how to learn what they are taught and stop shoving info into them like they are computers---THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS WITH SOULS. Just do the job and stop demanding more pay, more this, and more that.

#33.1 disgusted on 07/12/11 at 06:16 PM [Reply]

So multicultural to you equals tolerant of things that shouldn't be tolerated? Wow...I am rather shocked to see a (semi)-veiled racist rant on a Barrow County website...ok, yeah, that was sarcasm.
And teachers do their jobs, without complaint. They work long hours, and those that I know never complain. It is when the ignorant speak up and blast them, their performance, and their profession, well it's then that they speak up and fight back. This entire thread has been devoted to those who don't teach slamming the performance and intent of those who do. So, ok, Mr. or Mrs. John Q., how about if someone did that to you? Started arbitrarily hammerring your performance at your job or your profession as a whole? Would you sit idly by and just take it or would you defend yourself because you know you are doing a good job? It's not rocket science, this is just human nature.

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Last in/first out concept not used with teacher lottery

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